Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

It stops the moment the brain dies.

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Right you are, CI.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Ok, in the spirit of discussion, let's ask the hard question...

Is it possible for the human mind to accept the idea that it can cease to exist completely?

Throughout history and probably as long as the human mind has existed, people have speculated on the afterlife in an attempt to find a way to believe that when you die, you (whatever that is) still go on. All this speculation and belief and hope bears with it the distinct ambiance of desperation.

Let's step back for a moment, and ask ourselves, just how reasonable it really is to think that life endures (in any form) beyond death. Are the cracks of reality really revealed with mysticism and belief, or are our minds just incapable of accepting the possiblity of cessation of thought?

GREAT SUPERBOWL!!!!

OK, first off .... why don't we discuss cloning.

2 entries found for cloning.
clone ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kln)
n.

1. A cell, group of cells, or organism that are descended from and genetically identical to a single common ancestor, such as a bacterial colony whose members arose from a single original cell.
2. An organism descended asexually from a single ancestor, such as a plant produced by layering or a polyp produced by budding.
3. A DNA sequence, such as a gene, that is transferred from one organism to another and replicated by genetic engineering techniques.
4. One that copies or closely resembles another, as in appearance or function: "filled with business-school clones in gray and blue suits" (Michael M. Thomas).

v. cloned, clon·ing, clones
v. tr.

1. To make multiple identical copies of (a DNA sequence).
2. To create or propagate (an organism) from a clone cell: clone a sheep.
3. To reproduce or propagate asexually: clone a plant variety.
4. To produce a copy of; imitate closely: "The look has been cloned into cliché" (Cathleen McGuigan).

v. intr.

To grow as a clone.

If I take a single cell from my body, implant it into a human egg and follow the rest of the cloning procedure I will produce another me, identical in all human aspects to the original. Now, if I repeat the same procedure every fifty years will I ever die? The donor bodies will perish without a doubt but as long as the cloning takes place I live.

Or do I?

MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA (sorry, couldn't resist that :wink: )

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Cloning is just another way to make a baby. It is a replica of the parent, but is definitely not the parent. There is no immortality to be had in that way. In fact, until the process is sufficiently refined, the clone will be doomed to a short unhealthy life.

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As all past experiments with cloning has shown.

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... Off topic somehow...

Are the "dream tigers" commented on a Dali reference, or does it go back farther than that? I don't know why I'm curious of this, but I am,

thanks

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Gelisgesti wrote:

GREAT SUPERBOWL!!!!

Yes, it was Smile

I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Gelisgesti wrote:

OK, first off .... why don't we discuss cloning.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to my question, but cloning doesn't even lead to duplicate physiology, much less duplicate [thought] identity. After all, even identical twins (natural clones) have different finger prints, and they are always unique individuals.

Or as the old saying goes... "Remember, you're a unique individual, just like everyone else". Wink

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edgarblythe wrote:

Cloning is just another way to make a baby. It is a replica of the parent, but is definitely not the parent. There is no immortality to be had in that way. In fact, until the process is sufficiently refined, the clone will be doomed to a short unhealthy life.

Edgar, how would I be different from my clone if we are the same, from cell to cell the same. If there were two of me standing in front of you what difference would you look for?

CI, could you give me a reference on thos studies please so that I might read them? thx

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gels, Sure. Here's one, but I'll find more.
http://www.whitehead.mit.edu/nap/2001/nap_press_01_rjcloning.html

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Here's a whole slate you can access.
http://ms119.mysearch.com/jsp/GGmain.jsp?searchfor=cloning%20problems%20&ivjdsg=38yhuf

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CI, come on now, in the first place look at the date of your article, that and no human clones have been produced and dolly the sheep lived several years, so I clone myself every twenty years..... lets not change the premise to support the arguemennt ok?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Here's a whole slate you can access.
http://ms119.mysearch.com/jsp/GGmain.jsp?searchfor=cloning%20problems

Do you really expect me to do the research to support your arguement?

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The cells are duplicates of your cells. As with all efforts at duplication in nature, the copies vary slightly in every case. Try copying a cassette tape one copy from a copy and the next copy from the new copy over and over. Pretty soon the sound is thoroughly garbled. It's similar to that with cloning.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Gelisgesti wrote:
GREAT SUPERBOWL!!!!

Yes, it was I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Gelisgesti wrote:
OK, first off .... why don't we discuss cloning.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to my question, but cloning doesn't even lead to duplicate physiology, much less duplicate [thought] identity. After all, even identical twins (natural clones) have different finger prints, and they are always unique individuals.
Or as the old saying goes... "Remember, you're a unique individual, just like everyone else".

Rosborne, if we are to discuss cloning shouldn't we be more scientific and less anecdotal and conjectural? I have a deep personal interest in this particular branch of science and can tell you that there are no naturally occurring human clones. If there were we would not need pee pees. Shocked

Reading a persons thoughts to determine if they are from cloning, asexual, or natural reproduction, sexual, has not been considered to date.

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edgarblythe wrote:

The cells are duplicates of your cells. As with all efforts at duplication in nature, the copies vary slightly in every case. Try copying a cassette tape one copy from a copy and the next copy from the new copy over and over. Pretty soon the sound is thoroughly garbled. It's similar to that with cloning.

Edgar, the short answer is yes, there is imperfect duplication in recombinant DNA. Without the imperfect duplication, there would be no evolution, no growth, stagnation of the gene pool resullting in the eventual death of the species so all in all the imperfection is a good thing.
On the tape thing, buy a digital cd recorder. Wink

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You have sufficient knowledge to realize cloning is not the road to immortality, gel. After you die there will be no way to ensure the clones will survive or even desire to replicate themselves anyway.

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I'm just a man trying to find out what a man is Edgar. There is a procession stretching out in front of us and winding through our life choices to be shaped by the consequences of our actions or inactions then become the procession stretching out behind.

Immortality would be a sentence of no choice, no change, and no appeal, from the burning pit of a hell that is of your own creation.

I'll pass on the immortality gig.

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Gelisgesti wrote:

Rosborne, if we are to discuss cloning shouldn't we be more scientific and less anecdotal and conjectural? I have a deep personal interest in this particular branch of science and can tell you that there are no naturally occurring human clones.

Sorry to be flip Gel, I thought you knew the basics of this already.

Cloning does not produce duplicate organisms. And the differences have nothing to do with mutation (as in evolution). All embryonic cell division starts with genetically "identical" cells. First one cell, then two, then four, then eight and so on. Each cell genetically identical, yet at some point in the process, specialization begins within the once *identical* cells, and this, along with a response to environmental conditions result in a comletely unique organism. Without this specialization of cells no organism would ever be more than a pile of identical cells dividing endlessly.

This being the case, even perfectly cloned organisms exhibit large phenotypical differences due to environmental conditions (and other factors) surrounding the embryo.

And all of this says nothing about the differences in a persons "thoughts", which was the implication of your post.

Anyway, we are wandering away from the question in my previous post: "Is it possible for the human mind to accept the idea that it can cease to exist completely"? Or our divergence here another example of a desperate (though unintentional) attempt to avoid considering the possibility.

Best Regards,

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rosborne979 wrote:

Gelisgesti wrote:
Rosborne, if we are to discuss cloning shouldn't we be more scientific and less anecdotal and conjectural? I have a deep personal interest in this particular branch of science and can tell you that there are no naturally occurring human clones.

Sorry to be flip Gel, I thought you knew the basics of this already.

Cloning does not produce duplicate organisms. And the differences have nothing to do with mutation (as in evolution). All embryonic cell division starts with genetically "identical" cells. First one cell, then two, then four, then eight and so on. Each cell genetically identical, yet at some point in the process, specialization begins within the once *identical* cells, and this, along with a response to environmental conditions result in a comletely unique organism. Without this specialization of cells no organism would ever be more than a pile of identical cells dividing endlessly.

This being the case, even perfectly cloned organisms exhibit large phenotypical differences due to environmental conditions (and other factors) surrounding the embryo.

And all of this says nothing about the differences in a persons "thoughts", which was the implication of your post.

Anyway, we are wandering away from the question in my previous post: "Is it possible for the human mind to accept the idea that it can cease to exist completely"? Or our divergence here another example of a desperate (though unintentional) attempt to avoid considering the possibility.

Best Regards,

Be careful who you attempt to compare wits with and I'll try to behave. Why don't we stick with the discussion at hand and dispense with the poorly disquised barbs.

I was under the impression that you have to go through the 'gamete' ----> 'zygote' ----> 'cell' stages before you get to the division or more correctly 'mitosis'.

Thi is A good reference on the subject. Bone up then we can talk.

CLICK ME PLEASE

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Hi Gel,

Gelisgesti wrote:

Be careful who you attempt to compare wits with and I'll try to behave. Why don't we stick with the discussion at hand...

Which discussion is that, the one in which I asked a question and you avoided it by talking about Cloning, or the one in which you inferred things about Cloning which are incorrect and I explained why they are incorrect?

Gelisgesti wrote:

...and dispense with the poorly disquised barbs.

Those weren't poorly disguised barbs, they were direct comments. I asked a question previously which was being ignored, and I explained why the Clonging speculation you presented was unsubstantiated by fact.

Come on Gel, I'm not trying to compare wits with you, you're obviously a smart person, I'm just trying to explore new ideas along the theme of the thread, and to clarify some aspects of Cloning.

Best Regards,

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Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

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