Experts Claim Official 9-11 Story is a Hoax ! FINALLY!

Hani Hanjour, aerobatic jet pilot? http://www.911-strike.com/remote_skills.htm

Waitamin. First you say that a missile went into the pentagon, now you wish to recant and say that flight 77 was "wire guided"
I listened to the wife of the pilot of Flight 77 this morning on PBS. Is her husband still alive and all the people too? Did you see whether any DNA of the passengers or crew was recovered? Youre not done.
Apparently Magginkat and you will have to stipulate that , at least for that portion of your "conspiracy" a plane DID INDEED go into the Pentagon.

So, what have we learned

1 Alane did go into thePentagon

2The WTC seismic data was F**ked up by the conspiracists

3 That led to the firm conclusion that no cutter charges were used at WTC

We seem to be left with the fact that a series of 3 planes were flown into hard target s on 9?11. If thats the case then all the conspiracy has to change into one of
"ok we stipuklate that planes were used, but Bush was flying them RC"--see how utterly ridiculous that sounds , especially with most of the conspracists trying to convince us that my points 1,2, and 3 are untrue

bookmark

farmerman, I think your last post must not be addressed to me because I never said anything about a missile hitting the Pentagon. But in my last post a witness testifies that Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him him a plane without more lessons. I could just accept the government's story that Hanjour was the pilot of the plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon but then I would have to discard this testimoney. Since the government has told so many lies since 911, really big ones, I wont cast this testimoney aside. I dont believe this man had the ability to fly that plane especially on the course it had to take to hit the Pentagon. Also the government is the one releasing the flight data the plane allege4dly took. I dont just assume they're telling the truth there either. I'd be a lot more comfortable believing the airliner hit if there were any pictures of pieces of that plane or any physical evidence at the scene at all. But I haven't seen any. If you got something in that area it would be nice if you posted it. What I do believe is that Hanjour could not possibly have flown the plane.

Re Flight 77:

I don't know anything about the author of this site. But it has names, testimonies, quotes, and a lot of stuff that is presumably verifiable:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html#p3

I live about five miles directly south of the Pentagon. I can tell you for sure that on 9-11 and for a number of days after 9-11 there were firemen and fire fighting equipment from every jurisdiction within something like 30 miles taking turns working at the disaster site and this included people from Virginia, D.C. and Maryland. If ANYTHING about the official story were bogus, say, there had been no obvious sign of airplane debris and remains or dead bodies, then most if not all of those people would have seen it.

Do you really think that many firemen from that many jurisdictions could all be bribed or intimidated into keeping a secret like that a secret???

thats the main point that is being repeated. Im getting confused because the various conspiracies are starting to speciate into separate schools..
Ok blueflame, sorry, so you are saying that Flight 77 was RC'd into the Pentagon? because the Arab "pilot hijacker" wasnt a good student on his Cessna. Im trying to follow the convoluted logic of the conspiracies here and I gotta tell you that, did the Occams razor concept ever occur to you and your ilk?

Visuals of all planes , cameras of people in the boarding areas and everyone getting on the plane. What happened next?

And you forget a building that was not touched by any plane nor any falling object that hours later imploded just like the first two.

I guess old George did get his trifecta..... or at least made his own trifecta.

Now if only somone would perform a trifecta that would get rid of that skunk and his thugs for all time. Preferably put them in a prison cell for life.

Okay, so I'm nuts, but I think the Bush Admin LET it happen. I frankly don't think Osama could have pulled it off otherwise. I don't think the CIA is that remiss! It would have been easier for Osama to buy a nuke and ship it to New York than execute the plan they supposedly pulled off without us having a clue it was coming! I refuse to believe that Osama can't find or afford a nuke!! I also refuse to believe that he couldn't surf that bastard right into the American Harbor of his choice. New York, San Francisco/Oakland, Los Angeles, Seattle, etc.

I also think there is at least a 10% chance that the Bush Admin was in on it. Either members of his staff or PNAC at one time stated that what they really needed was another Pearl Harbor. I think it's even been mentioned here who and when it was said.

As to the far fetched conspiracy theories about cutter charges, remote controlled planes, drone planes, etc. are just that ... far fetched!!

Ok, I'm receiving scornful remarks at this time! Take your best shot!


Anon

magginkatOh so the night shift is still convinced that the buildings at WTC were imploded , despite the "quiet seicmograph" AND THEN, (if you buy that) they quickly demolished the WTC 7 which was hit by the collapsing WTC 2 .

Im wondering where you get your personal expertise in structural engineering magginkat? From the conspiracy websites? Is that where? or are you studying for a MCE in structure?
You dont question the sources, the veracity, the motives or anything from the conspiracylinks, you just buy into them , no questions asked. Yet there is a ton of good forensic scientific evidence that refutes their points .

Ive presented data that showed the seismographs DONT show any detonations , nothing. Yet you choose to believe a bunch of lying crap salesmen that keep repeating "controlled demolition" We know thats a goddam lie, so start thinking for yourself, could they be lying about other things?

Foxy posted a whole bunch of "eyewitnesses and pictures " from the Pentagon, Now that bullshit about a misslile is blown open really well. The evidence of the plane inside is irrefutable, theres pieces of landing gear inside level 3 and just outside level three is a chunk of a wheel from a 757. A flight attendant could identify the plane. So, magginkat, you are left with no argument other than the radio controlled airplanes theory. Is that where your finally going cause Well probably have to go and find something to forensically refute that.


You people drink too much coffee and smoke too much.

anon. I agree with you. However, I choose to use another phrase, they permitted it to happen, why,? INCOMPETENCE. However, having said that, the incompetence goes back to Clinton years also. The same FBI and CIA teams were on board. These are lifers, These guys needed to be housecleaned when this happened. Just like Homeland security should have been sweopt clean and peopled up with real military intel. WE still have the incompetence problem, if Katrina wasnt another lesson, I dont know what is.

I find incompetence as inexcusable as any other motive. Liberals and Conservatives need to find common ground and beat the **** out of our Legislators to get some stones and represent US, and not their goddam special interests. Politic shas us tearing each others livers out for really stupid bumper stickers that are untrue. Gungasnake thinks Im a pinko. He doesnt know what Ive done for this country in the past. He only thinks in Limbaugh led bumper stickers . AND thats killing us. We tangentially agree on this for different reasons but agree nonetheless.

I think that, speaking for the majority of patrioticAmericans, this conspiracy **** is just that, ****. However, we cant go back to sleep with politicos arguing about whether NSA wiretaps should be allowed in these cases. Ive heard it said that
" The constitution is not a suicide pact, but neither is it a surrender document" We need to power up our surveillance modes and prevent a bigger catastrophe in the future. We cant have the same vapid incompetence on both sides of the aisle.

Farmerman,

Yea, I'm pretty much 5 X 5 with you. I'm trying to back off getting in fights with people about this stuff. I find that getting all red and puffy and letting the blood pressure get to 200 over 100 is stupid. If the person is really closed minded, it isn't going to change their minds, and I just make a fool out of myself! I'm watching and reading more now, and posting less.

A margarita once in a while doesn't hurt either. Then I just sit here and laugh at them!!

Anon

naah, Im a sucker fer a red flag

I just finished Steven E jones paper.

Now I will read Dr. Thomas Eagers theory (Eagar and Musso,2001) This is the theory adopted by FEMA and presented in the NOVA presentation.

Aside from the question of having to buy the silence of hundreds of firemen from several scores of jurisdictions around the D.C. region, there's also the fact that a number of pentagon employees died on 9-11. IF 9-11 had been any sort of government or military plot, the potential for unholy lawsuits and major kinds of careers being terminated would have been overwhelming.

You have to assume an aircraft was involved since there's no possible way they could cover that if it that were not the case and given the fact than an aircraft was involved, they had no way to know who amongst themselves was going to die.

A good conspiracy does not start off with a game of Russian roulette.

Not to mention that it would have been one hell of a conspiracy to put together in less than the first eight months of the Bush administration and far less time than that if you factor the confirmation process into it. In fact, most normal people would also rule out an incompetency theory as well unless you think an administration comes to office anticipating such a scenario as 9/11 and focuses all their attention on that from Day #1.

So we now have people gullible enough to believe screwy conspiracy theories that the Bush administration staged this. Do you realize how smart they would have had to be to do that? These same people the conspriacy theorists have called stupid and dumb for the past five years?

And then the other people now who condemn the Bush administration for "letting it happen" are mostly the people who are also condemning the Bush administration for doing what is necessary to see that it doesn't happen again.

Does anybody see a general pattern here?

So lets just ignore all the informed investigations including the testimonies of the people in the link I previosly posted and just go with crazy wacko conspiracy theories or blame a brand new administration for stupidly allowing it. Yesh. That's intelligent. And so helpful too.

so you dont believe in complete accountabiity?
Apparently the intelligence community isnt any leass disfunctional than it was on September 10.
Publicizing "hits" on Qaida leaders doesnt constitute anything but "feelgood" fodder for the people who already are, like you, convinced that Bush is doing good work. The majority of the country is dissatisfied , no matter what the Talking Heads want us to believe.

Meet Ace Suicide Pilot Hani Hanjour

Let's look at what we know about the alleged suicide pilot of American Airlines Flight 77, Hani Hanjour. According to press reports, Hanjour had used Bowie's Maryland Freeway Airport three times since mid-August as he attempted to get permission to use one of the airport's planes. This from The Prince George's [Maryland] Journal September 18, 2001:

"Marcel Bernard, the chief flight instructor at the airport, said the man named Hani Hanjour went into the air in a Cessna 172 with instructors from the airport three times beginning the second week of August and had hoped to rent a plane from the airport.
"According to published reports, law enforcement sources say Hanjour, in his mid-twenties, is suspected of crashing the American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon.

. . . "Hanjour had his pilot's license, said Bernard, but needed what is called a 'check-out' done by the airport to gauge a pilot's skills before he or she is able to rent a plane at Freeway Airport which runs parallel to Route 50.

"Instructors at the school told Bernard that after three times in the air, they still felt he was unable to fly solo and that Hanjour seemed disappointed.

. . . "Published reports said Hanjour obtained his pilot's license in April of 1999, but it expired six months later because he did not complete a required medical exam. He also was trained for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., in 1996, but did not finish the course because instructors felt he was not capable.

"Hanjour had 600 hours listed in his log book, Bernard said, and instructors were surprised he was not able to fly better with the amount of experience .S Pete Goulatta, a special agent and spokesman for the FBI, said it is an on-going criminal investigation and he could not comment." http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77/hijackers.html

I believe in the Constitutional authority given to the Executive Branch to ensure the safety and defense of the American people. I 100% believe that such defense and safety requires the ability of the US government to monitor what comes into and goes out of the US both materially and via communications. If the Bush-haters are successful in hamstringing the ability of the administration to do that, I believe we will all be at far greater risk.

I do not believe the Bush administration had the time or resources to anticipate and stop 9/11, but I believe they are doing their damndest to prevent another one. And I support that effort.

Trust, me. Steering an airplane is much easier than passing a check-out. A check-out requires one to recover from stalls, communicate with the tower, perform touch-and-goes, etc.

Simple powered flight is extremely easy in a modern aircraft.