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Are Muslims the "Chosen People" of GOD?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 10:46 pm
You haven't answered the question, Ali. What is your basis for asserting the Quran to be the revealed word of god?

References to specious claims about the new testament don't wash, because you've not established the veracity of that as a source, but even more hilariously, you've spent pages upon pages at this site excoriating the christian scripture--and now you want to claim it as evidence that the Quran is divinely inspired?

You have provided no evidence that the Quran is the revealed word of god.

You can considerably simplify your rant if you drop references to christianity when you address me--i'm not a christian.
0 Replies
 
ali87
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 11:07 pm
Setanta wrote:
You haven't answered the question, Ali. What is your basis for asserting the Quran to be the revealed word of god?

References to specious claims about the new testament don't wash, because you've not established the veracity of that as a source, but even more hilariously, you've spent pages upon pages at this site excoriating the christian scripture--and now you want to claim it as evidence that the Quran is divinely inspired?

You have provided no evidence that the Quran is the revealed word of god.

You can considerably simplify your rant if you drop references to christianity when you address me--i'm not a christian.



i read the quran, and i read the bible, simple, go read if you care to know, all i can do is give you pieces of information and answers, im not gonna copy n paste the whole quran (ANSWER) here. youll have to read it to know i can offer you a free software, but reading the actual book is much better.
so the answer is the QURAN itself.

another answer from what i feel would be that christianity led me to islam, for i could never believe that God almighty was a man and that he had a son. since i was a little kid, i always believed in God, and i never say in the existance of God, for god is beyond existance, i never say god in heaven for the heaven does not contain God, a title i give to God is "beyond"
another reason are the many predictions and scientific claims of the Quran that became true today.


LASTLY AS I SAID FIRST, READ ALL OF THE QURAN, DONT GO TO WEBSITE MADE BY ANTIISLAMIC CRITICS, MOST OF THE MEDIA IS CONTROLLED BY THE WEST. PERHAPS A GOOD WEBSITE ABOUT THE KNOWLEGDE OF ISLAM ARE THESE TWO:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml
0 Replies
 
ali87
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 11:25 pm
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/jesus_ali.jpg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 11:47 pm
ali87 wrote:
so the answer is the QURAN itself.


Man, it's like pullin' teeth to get this **** out of you . . . no, i'm not gonna rush off to your sites (which i have checked out when you posted links before) where some whacko posts his screed about why his imaginary friend is better than everyone else's imaginary friend . . .

You're using circular reasoning there.

Someone asks, why believe the Quran? You reply, because it's the revealed word of god. So, how do you know that? It says so in the Quran.

You have no argument.

Got any other basis upon which to claim that any allegedly holy scripture is the revealed word of god?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 11:56 pm
ali87....Is it just me or have you just posted some idols there ....?

What is the sentence for idolatry?
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 12:53 am
ali87, Why can't you answer my and setantas questions all you offer us is more religious bullsh!t. An old book written by men. thats all the Quran is.

You are beginning to prove that you are the same as a Jew, or a christian or any other religion created by men and followed by men.

DO YOU HAVE PROOF THAT THE QURAN IS THE TRUE WORD OF GOD OR ARE YOU AS FULL OF SH!T AS THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS??????????

Nothing you say is worth a f**k intill you can prove the Quran is the true word of god.

SO LET"S SEE IT?
0 Replies
 
ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:27 am
Amigo wrote:
ali87, Why can't you answer my and setantas questions all you offer us is more religious bullsh!t. An old book written by men. thats all the Quran is.

You are beginning to prove that you are the same as a Jew, or a christian or any other religion created by men and followed by men.

DO YOU HAVE PROOF THAT THE QURAN IS THE TRUE WORD OF GOD OR ARE YOU AS FULL OF SH!T AS THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS??????????

Nothing you say is worth a f**k intill you can prove the Quran is the true word of god.

SO LET"S SEE IT?







life was originated from water:

"He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!" (The Noble Quran, 11:7)"

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

"It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things). (The Noble Quran, 25:54)"

"And God has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things. (The Noble Quran, 24:45

Very Important Discovery:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/ch1-1-c-img1.jpg


A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the "smoke" that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, page 50)
Allah Almighty said: "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"
The Noble Quran on the Origin of the Universe
Only Islam claims that the universe was originated from Dust and Hot Gas, or Smoke.


Another Very Important Discovery:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/warda.jpg



Allah Almighty Said: "And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY LIKE RED HIDE - (The Noble Quran, 55:37)"
What Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion. He is also telling us that the Universe will all turn into red exploded galaxies looking like red or reddish roses when the Day of Judgement happens.
In the Arabic Noble Verse, "wardatan" was translated as "ROSY" above. The root word "WARDA" in Arabic LITERALLY means "ROSE" or "FLOWER". The "tan" at the end of "wardatan" is not part of the word. It is only an Arabic PUNCTUATION that only changes the sound of the word for grammatical rules. It is pronounced as "ten", with the "a" being short. The reason why the above word was not written as "wardaten" is because in many parts of the world, the English word "ten" (number 10) is pronounced as "tin". Only the American-English pronounce the "e" as a short "a". Most of the world uses the British-English system and they pronounce the "e" as "i", and the "o" as it is, such as "stop" pronounced as "stope". The American-English pronounces the "o" as a thick "a". Also, if we were to add two Arabic characters, "alif" and "noon" at the end of "warda", it would change the pronunciation to "taan" (wardataan), and it then becomes two "wardas"; plural.
**** Explosion of Galaxies can not be seen with the naked eye. It also can not be seen with regular telescopes. You need the special Government-owned and NASA-owned "Hubble Space" Super Telescope. The point from all of this is that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him could not have come up with any of this on his own 1500 years ago!



Life and our physical bodies originated from CLAY (soil, dust and water) - The Noble Quran Claimed it and Science confirmed it!
The sections of this article are:
1- Allah Almighty's Divine Claims in the Noble Quran.
2- The Scientific Proofs!



Allah Almighty's Divine Claims in the Noble Quran:
The following article and Noble Verses were sent to me by my dear brother in Islam, Frank; a Western convert to Islam. May Allah Almighty always be pleased with him. You can also visit his web site at: http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/

Let us look at what Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:
"He it is created you from clay, and then decreed a stated term (for you). And there is in His presence another determined term; yet ye doubt within yourselves! (The Noble Quran, 6:2)"
"He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. Such is He, the Knower of all things, hidden and open, the Exalted (in power), the Merciful;- He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:5-9)"
All of our souls came from GOD Almighty's Spirit. Please visit: Abortion in Islam is a crime!

"Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay! (The Noble Quran, 37:11)"
"Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); (The Noble Quran, 23:12)"
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; (The Noble Quran, 15:26)"
"God created man of clay, like pottery. (The Noble Quran, 55:14)"

Also, please visit: Life originated from water in the Noble Quran.


The Scientific Proofs!
The following article was taken from: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4307. The color, bold and underline emphasis below are mine.

Clay's matchmaking could have sparked life
• 19:00 23 October 2003
• NewScientist.com news service
• Philip Cohen

Two of the crucial components for the origin of life - genetic material and cell membranes - could have been introduced to one another by a lump of clay, new experiments have shown.
The study of montmorillonite clay, by Martin Hanczyc, Shelly Fujikawa and Jack Szostak at the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, revealed it can sharply accelerate the formation of membranous fluid-filled sacs.
These vesicles also grow and undergo a simple form of division, giving them the properties of primitive cells. Previous work has shown that the same simple mineral can help assemble the genetic material RNA from simpler chemicals. "Interestingly, the clay also gets internalised in the vesicles," says Leslie Orgel, an origin of life expert at the Salk Institute for Biological Sciences in San Diego, California. "So this work is quite nice in that it finds a connection between the mechanism that creates RNA and encloses it in a membrane."
Inherit, mutate, evolve
The genesis of genetic material and the emergence of cell structure are hot areas of research, but until now the two had not connected. The birth of genetic material was clearly crucial for life to take on its unique abilities to inherit, mutate and evolve.
And membranes were key to the physiology of cells because they protect their contents, concentrate chemicals to promote reactions and isolate successful genes from unsuccessful ones. "It's clear you really need both these elements to get evolution off the ground and running," says Szostak.
Research has already shown that some of building blocks for RNA-like molecules and membranes are spontaneously created by chemical reactions in outer space and in conditions that may have existed on the primordial Earth. But how these subunits were then assembled is still debated.
For RNA, one popular theory revolves around the unusual properties of montmorillonite clay. The negatively charged layers of its crystals create a sandwich of positive charge between them. This turns out to be a highly attractive environment for RNA subunits to concentrate and join together into long chains.
100-fold acceleration
Szostak wondered whether montmorillonite could also help the assembly of vesicles from simple fatty acid precursors. He remembers the day his colleagues Hanczyc and Fujikawa ran into his office to show him their first results: the clay caused a 100-fold acceleration of vesicle formation.
"It was pretty amazing," he says. Once formed, the vesicles often incorporated bit of clay and were able to grow by absorbing more fatty acid subunits.
His team also showed the clay could hold RNA and form vesicles at the same time. Fluorescently-labelled RNA attached to the clay ended up assembled into vesicles after the reaction. And the researchers were able to get these "protocells" to divide by forcing them through small holes. This caused them to split into smaller vesicles, with minimal loss of their contents.
Szostak admits that in a natural setting the vesicles would rarely be forced to divide in this way. So now his group is searching for different mixtures of membrane-forming molecules that might divide spontaneously when they reach a certain size.
Journal reference: Science (vol 302, p 618 )

Related Articles
• Plasma blobs hint at new form of life
• 17 September 2003
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• 9 May 2002
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• 27 March 2002
• Search New Scientist
• Contact us
Web Links
• Jack Szostak, Massachusetts General Hospital
• Leslie Orgel, Salk Institute for Biological Sciences
• Origins of life, University of Arizona
• Science



Science and Existence of Plant's pairs - The Noble Quran claimed it 1500 years ago!



"(God is the One who) sent down rain from the sky and with it brought forth a variety of plants in pairs [azwajan min nabatin shatta]." {Quran, 20:53}
The above verse informing us about the existence of male and female flowers and plants. lets consider the modern research.


Science and Existence of Plant's pairs
Each individual flower has both male and female parts. (1)
Both male and female trees are usually necessary to produce a crop of fruit. For positive fruiting, both male and female trees should be planted. (2)

Previously, humans did not know that plants too have male and female gender distinctions. Botany states that every plant has a male and female gender.

(1) http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets2/landsnurs/feb88pr6.html
(2) http://www.ces.purdue.edu/gardentips/fruits/persimmons.html
Motion of the Earth in the Noble Quran:


Have WE not made the earth a fast moving object with den of storage?
{Al-Quran 77:25}

Second verse regarding motion of the earth:
"Have We not made the earth as a cradle and the mountains like pegs?"
{Al-Quran 78:6-7}


Third Verse Regarding Motion Of the Earth
And the earth is wada'aha for the creatures

{Al-Quran 55:10}
"wada'atinnaaqah" means " a running camel" (lughat-ul-Quran)
"Wada'aturrajul" means "a running man" (lughat-ul-Quran)

We observed that the word "running" common in both meanings, hence in the above verse the word "wada'a" used with the earth. thus the translation of this verse will be,
And the earth, is a running object for the creatures

{Al-Quran 55:10}

4th Verse Regarding Motion Of the Earth
Who has made for you the earth as a farsh.....
{Al-Quran 2:22}
Farasha means a "flying insect" like moth, mosquito etc. This meaning of farash is used in the following verse of the Holy Quran:


The Noble Quran confirms that the earth is rotating around its axle:


"Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they pass like the passing of the clouds: (such is) the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 27:88)"



Translation of Khalifa:
When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
Translation of Palmer:
And thou shalt see the mountains, which thou dost deem solid, pass away like the passing of the clouds;- the work of God who orders all things; verily, He is well aware of what ye do!

Allah Almighty did say that all of the objects in the Universes are swimming in space:
Allah Almighty said that all of the objects of the Universe are swimming; each in its orbit:
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"


The Scientific Miracle:
Why did Allah Almighty say in the Noble Quran that the mountains pass like the clouds in the sky do? We all know that to humans, the earth doesn't really move. Everything is standing still, except during the times of earth quakes.
So what is the purpose from Allah Almighty telling us that the mountains are moving? By the way, the "mountains" here is not just limited to mountains, but rather it includes the whole ground we're standing on, since like I said, to us humans, the earth doesn't move, except during the times of earth quakes. And the mountains are obviously connected with the ground.
By the way, clouds never really move away. They only rotate around the earth and travel above the earth; above land to land. So if the mountains (the whole ground of earth since the mountains are part of earth) are "moving, like the clouds", then this means that the earth is also moving in circle around its axle.
So, why didn't Allah Almighty just say so? Allah Almighty 1500 years ago did not want to make irrational and CRAZY statements that would've been refused and considered as absurd and utter nonsense to the people who lacked a great deal of knowledge about astronomy and geology. The Miracle of the Noble Quran is that while Allah Almighty made the statement in Noble Verse 27:88 acceptable to the people back then, He also included the scientific claim in it for us today, and told us that the earth does indeed move around its axle.

In fact, Allah Almighty specifically said that in the Noble Quran:
"And the earth We have spread out; set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. (The Noble Quran, 15:19)"
"He created the heavens [sky] without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. we send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. (The Noble Quran, 31:10)"
"And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves, and marks and signposts and by the stars (men) guide themselves. (The Noble Quran, 16:15-16)"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/ch1-1-b-img2.jpg


The mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p. 220)
Allah Almighty said: "Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (The Noble Quran, 78:6-7)"
He the Almighty also said: "And He has set firm mountains in the earth so it would not shake with you....(The Noble Quran, 16:15)"
Please visit: The amazing creation of earth and mountains in the Noble Quran. Science confirms that mountains prevent the earth from shaking while it is revolving around its axle. The Noble Quran made a similar claim.

So, why did Allah Almighty say in the Noble Quran 1500 years ago that the earth is moving like the clouds?
Because the earth was scientifically proven to rotate around its axle:
"The day is defined to be the time between one dawn (or noon) and the next' i.e., the day is defined with respect to the position of the Sun in the sky. Now, the earth revolves around the sun in the sky and so the time taken for the Sun to come to the same position in the sky is longer than the time taken for the Earth to rotate once around itself. You can convince yourself about this by drawing a picture of the Earth in orbit around the Sun and rotating around itself at the same time.
So, the Earth's rotation period is actually 4 minutes less than what we call as one day. As a result of this, the Sun's position in the sky at noon is roughly fixed, but the stars slowly drift apart. So, the stars which are overhead at midnight today will slowly move in the sky until they will be overhead at noon 6 months apart.
If instead we defined a day to be the time taken by the Earth to rotate round itself exactly once, then as you mention, the Sun will be overhead on some day at midnight."
(http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=52)

The overlapping of the Day and Night around the Earth:
The overlapping of the Day over the Night and the Night over the Day is a helpful claim to Noble Verse 27:88 above. Let us look at the following Noble Verse:
"He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? (The Noble Quran, 39:5)"

The earth was created as "egg-shaped" in the Noble Quran:
Please visit: Allah Almighty said that the earth is "egg-shaped".
The Earth is round according to Islam.


And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); 31. He draweth out Therefrom its water And its pasture; 32. And the mountains Hath He firmly fixed -- 33. For use and convenience To you and your cattle. (The Noble Quran, 79:30-33)"



Signs of the Quran - Astronomy



Astronomy - Alien life forms

We sent down Iron …"
Surah Al-Hadid Surah 57 Ayah 25 "
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His seat (Arsh) was over the Waters…"
Surah Hud 11 Ayah 7
"… His throne (Kursi) doth extend over the heavens and the earth…"
Surah Al-Baqara 2 Ayah 255


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/image26.gif


Iron is a heavy element, a transition metal and stands in the middle of the periodic table of elements. This table was proposed by the Russian scientist Dimitry Mendeleyev by the middle of the 19th century and it classifies the elements according to their chemical properties in rows and columns. In this table iron (chemical symbol Fe) has been classified as the 26th element with an atomic weight that varies between 55,8 and 57.
If this compared with the positioning of the verse above and the number of the Surah, it is obvious that there is a special match between the number of the Surah and the atomic weight of iron as well as the number of the Ayah that iron is mentioned in and the number of the element iron. And because the first verse of every Surah is "bismillah hirrahmaan nirraheem", "in the name of Allah most gracious, most merciful" and is not counted as an independent verse, it can be added. The word iron is then in verse 26 of the Surah 57.
The main compound of water is hydrogen, the original and basic element, which is the lightest of all and the most abundant in the universe. It consists of 1 proton and neutron in the nucleus and 1 electron in the shell and in the nuclear fusion taking place in the supernovae (see Universe & Life, Elements), hydrogen and helium, which is produced directly out of it, are fused to heavier elements. So hydrogen "does extend over the heavens and the earth", as stated in S 2:A55 and it is the throne of the creator, meaning he has created all matter out of it. On the other hand the mere seat (arsh in comparison to kursi) is the water, the origin of life. As the creation of the heavens and the earth is mentioned as a more complex act than the creation of life and human beings, it can be associated to the throne rather than the mere seat, which is on water.
Since water is abundant in the universe and it is the source of (carbon based) life, furthermore it is mentioned in the Quran that there are many beings between the heavens and the Earth who praise Allah, it is clear that there must be other intelligent life in the universe.
The picture above shows: THE PERIODIC TABLE OF ELEMENTS, The latest element discovered by scientists in 1999 is a radioactive element which exists for tiny fractions of seconds and has the atomic weight of 114, exactly the total number of Surahs in the Quran. It is unlikely that any new element will be discovered, because the search has been going on for decades and the methods have not improved or changed for a long time. In this respect, the structure of the Quran is a reflection of the elementary creation of the universe. The book of nature and the book of revelation harmonise as they have the same origin, the Almighty Creator.
Iron was sent from Space in the Quran:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm
The Seven Layers of the earth's atmosphere in the Quran:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm
the layers of the Atmosphere in the Quran:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm


Living Creatures were sent down from space. Science confirms the Noble Quran's Claim:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/life_from_space.htm



UFOs and Space Shuttles were explicitly mentioned in the Noble Quran!
Let us look at the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran:
"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills. (The Noble Quran, 42:29)"
This Noble Verse was forwarded to me by brother Frank (www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com), who have embraced Islam; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
As we see, "through them" includes the living creatures in both the Universe (heavens) and the earth. Please visit: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7906/ for more details and proofs. This link too was forwarded to me by brother Frank.
Also, "gather them together when He wills" seems to suggest that Allah Almighty would allow communication, finding and meeting with those scattered creations in the Universe (UFOs in other words) when "He wills".
Allah Almighty clearly talked about what we call today "space shuttles":
"O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass! (The Noble Quran, 55:33)"
When Allah Almighty revealed to Prophet the Noble Quran 1500 years ago, there were no flying air planes or man-made objects invented. Yet Allah Almighty talked about humans passing the zones of heavens by saying "If it be ye can pass....., pass ye! not without authority" What is that authority? It is the Will of Allah Almighty of course, and the physical "space shuttles".

"Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment). (The Noble Quran, 27:65)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
Noble Verses 27:65 and 19:93-96 clearly suggest that there are beings existing in the Universe in places other than earth.

"Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on Earth.' They said: 'Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?' He said: 'I know what ye know not.' (The Noble Quran, 2:30)"
When I read this Noble Verse the first time after I watched citing of UFOs on TV, I pondered upon it for a while. If Adam peace be upon him was the very first human out of all Mankind that GOD Almighty ever created, then what caused the Angels peace be upon them to be concerned about Adam's creation and say "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?"??
How did they know that we humans were going to do mischief on Earth and shed blood??

Also, notice that Allah Almighty said that he was going to "create a vicegerent on Earth" only! So, it could very well be that Adam peace be upon him was the first human being ever existed on Earth, but not the first human being ever created.
"It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 2:29)"
"He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (God) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw? (The Noble Quran, 67:3)"
"God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the Earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"
In the above Noble Verses we clearly see that Allah Almighty created seven Heavens or probably Galaxies! If we are living in one Galaxy, and there are six other Galaxies like the one we are living in, then it is very highly possible that there are other planets that have living humans in them as well.
Notice carefully that Allah Almighty said in Noble Verse 65:12 "God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the Earth a similar number...." This could mean that there are six other Earths beside ours.
It could also mean that the Earth is made of seven layers as was Geologically proven. Please visit The mention of creation of Earth and Iron in the Noble Quran perfectly matches our scientific discoveries today.

The dead turning into Fossils and Iron. The Noble Quran Claimed it, and Science today Confirmed it!

http://www.answering-christianity.com/from_dead_to_iron.htm







The Quran states how old is the Universe:

Age of the Universe
There are at least 3 ways that the age of the Universe can be estimated. I will describe

The age of the chemical elements.
The age of the oldest star clusters.
The age of the oldest white dwarf stars.

The Age of the Elements
The age of the chemical elements can be estimated using radioactive decay to determine how old a given mixture of atoms is. The most definite ages that can be determined this way are ages since the solidification of rock samples. When a rock solidifies, the chemical elements often get separated into different crystalline grains in the rock. For example, sodium and calcium are both common elements, but their chemical behaviours are quite different, so one usually finds sodium and calcium in different grains in a differentiated rock. Rubidium and strontium are heavier elements that behave chemically much like sodium and calcium. Thus rubidium and strontium are usually found in different grains in a rock. But Rb-87 decays into Sr-87 with a half-life of 47 billion years. And there is another isotope of strontium, Sr-86, which is not produced by any rubidium decay. The isotope Sr-87 is called radiogenic, because it can be produced by radioactive decay, while Sr-86 is non-radiogenic. The Sr-86 is used to determine what fraction of the Sr-87 was produced by radioactive decay. This is done by plotting the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio versus the Rb-87/Sr-86 ratio. When a rock is first formed, the different grains have a wide range of Rb-87/Sr-86 ratios, but the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio is the same in all grains because the chemical processes leading to differentiated grains do not separate isotopes. After the rock has been solid for several billion years, a fraction of the Rb-87 will have decayed into Sr-87. Then the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio will be larger in grains with a large Rb-87/Sr-86 ratio. Do a linear fit of

Sr-87/Sr-86 = a + b*(Rb-87/Sr-86)

and then the slope term is given by
b = 2x - 1

with x being the number of half-lives that the rock has been solid. See the talk.origins isochrone FAQ for more on radioactive dating.

When applied to rocks on the surface of the Earth, the oldest rocks are about 3.8 billion years old. When applied to meteorites, the oldest are 4.56 billion years old. This very well determined age is the age of the Solar System. See the talk.origins age of the Earth FAQ for more on the age of the solar system.

When applied to a mixed together and evolving system like the gas in the Milky Way, no great precision is possible. One problem is that there is no chemical separation into grains of different crystals, so the absolute values of the isotope ratios have to be used instead of the slopes of a linear fit. This requires that we know precisely how much of each isotope was originally present, so an accurate model for element production is needed. One isotope pair that has been used is rhenium and osmium: in particular Re-187 which decays into Os-187 with a half-life of 40 billion years. It looks like 15% of the original Re-187 has decayed, which leads to an age of 8-11 billion years. But this is just the mean formation age of the stuff in the Solar System, and no rhenium or osmium has been made for the last 4.56 billion years. Thus to use this age to determine the age of the Universe, a model of when the elements were made is needed. If all the elements were made in a burst soon after the Big Bang, then the age of the Universe would be to = 8-11 billion years. But if the elements are made continuously at a constant rate, then the mean age of stuff in the Solar System is

(to + tSS)/2 = 8-11 Gyr

which we can solve for the age of the Universe giving
to = 11.5-18 Gyr


Allah The Allmighty says :
( 22-47 ) < And surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number.>
It's mean that a Day by Allah is 1000 years in our reckoning in relation with the revolution of the Moon around the Earth ( it is the Hegire year) or the revolution of the Earth around the Sun ( Gregorian year).
And Allah says :
[70.4] To Him ascend the Angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
In this verse of the Sura 'The way of Ascent' ( it is the Way which take the Angels from the Earth to the Heaven after having excecuted the duties necessary for the Life of our Planet and the Kosmos. We can note that Allah doesn't say "fifty thousand years of what you number" because the day in question in this verse is a time measure of a Gods day ( which each day is 1000 years in our reckoning ) and this day is the age of the Universe which all events of our life from heaven to earth ascend to Him.
Let's convert these God's Years in our norms :
50,000 * 365.2422 (days in human year) = 18,262,110 Allah's Days.
One Day by Allah is corresponding 1000 years of our reckoning, therefore the Age of the Universe is :
18,262,110 * 1,000 = 18,262,110,000 years, that's to say that the age of the Universe is around 18, 1/4 Billions years. This number correspond exactly of the above article . After more than 14 centuries, Science and particularly Professor Jean-Claude Batelere of the "College de France" states that it is now a certitude that the Universe is 18 billions years old .


And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the Land and the Sea, (SURA 6, verse 59 )
The singular word 'Bahr' means sea has occurred 32, all land words has occurred 13 times ('Barr' means land has occurred 12 times + the word 'Yabas' means land occurred 1 time) so the total would be 32 + 13 = 45 times

sea percentage would be: ( 32/45 ) * 100 % = 71.1111 %

land percentage would be: ( 13/45 ) * 100 %= 28.8889 %

and it is the exact percentage of the sea to land ..
Finally after this simple calculation we come to a miraculous result which stated the Quran for more than 1400 years and which the modern Science confirmes.
In Encyclopedia Britannica we can read :

Ocean :
continuous body of salt water that is contained in enormous basins on the Earth's surface.
When viewed from space, the predominance of the oceans on the Earth is readily apparent. The oceans and their marginal seas cover nearly 71 percent of the Earth's surface, with an average depth of 3,795 metres (12,450 feet). The exposed land occupies the remaining 29 percent of the planetary surface and has a mean elevation of only 840 metres (2,756 feet). Actually, all the elevated land could be hidden under the oceans and the Earth reduced to a smooth sphere that would be completely covered by a continuous layer of seawater 2,686 metres deep. This is known as the sphere depth of the oceans and serves to underscore the abundance of water on the Earth's surface.

The Earth is round according to Islam.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_round.htm






Oceanology in the Noble Quran:



http://www.answering-christianity.com/oceanology.htm



The Big Bang Theory and the Cosmic Crunch in the Noble Quran:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hot_gas.htm





The Noble Quran on the Origin of the Universe:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/the_universe.htm


Comparison between what Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran with some scientific discoveries:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah_and_science.htm



How could Allah create the world in 6 days if science has proved that the world and universe took millions of years to make?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm


Einstein's time relativity in the Noble Quran:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/time_relativity.htm



Black Holes and Piercing Stars in the Noble Quran were confirmed by Science.


http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_37.html


The Mercy of Allah Almighty on Mankind, and our age of 40 Wisdom in Islam, Psychology and Science:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/mercy_of_allah.htm










YOU WANT MORE MIRACLES FROM THE QURAN?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:52 am
Amigo wrote:
ali87, Why can't you answer my and setantas questions all you offer us is more religious bullsh!t. An old book written by men. thats all the Quran is.

You are beginning to prove that you are the same as a Jew, or a christian or any other religion created by men and followed by men.

DO YOU HAVE PROOF THAT THE QURAN IS THE TRUE WORD OF GOD OR ARE YOU AS FULL OF SH!T AS THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS??????????

Nothing you say is worth a f**k intill you can prove the Quran is the true word of god.

SO LET"S SEE IT?


I thought it would be interesting to start a topic based on the Islamic religion. However, the point of my thread is only to try to convince you that the Quran is the word of God, but not neccesarily that Islam is the "right religion".

As far as I know, there are three scriptures which have been said to be the direct word of God: the Torah, the Gospel and the Quran. However, all of us agree that the Torah and the Gospel have been changed time and time again. No two Bibles are alike.

What about the Quran? The Quran states that it is the last scripture to be sent down from God, and the God has take it upon himself to preserve it. It is true that the Quran has remained completely unchanged for over 1400 years, since the time of it's revelation. Not a single word, nor a single letter has been changed.

Cristians believe in the Torah, they believe that it was sent down by God, but they follow the Gospel because it is the most "revised" message so far. Is it not possible that yet another book would come after the Gospel? I don't that is is stated anywhere in the Gospel that no more books will proceed it.

Jesus was an Israelite/Jew right? At that time, his people were following the teachings of the Torah, but the Torah's message has been altered, and the jewish rabbis of the time were taking advantage of people using religion. Jesus comes along with his miracles and a new book. Many people start to follow Jesus' teachings. It's not like they converted or anything. They simply knew that God has sent them another prophet (or as Christians believe, his Son) down with a new book, which corrected the mistakes in the altered Torah.

Now let's take a look the the last scripture, the Quran. There is no "proof" that it is the word of God, and there is no "proof" either for the other two scriptures. But, let's take a look at the facts shall we?

First of all, the prophet Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael became the "father" of the Arabs, and Isaac became the "father" of the Israelites/Jews. Jesus (peace be upon him) is therefore and decendant of Isaac, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a decendant of Ishmael. The Arabs never had a book sent down to them like the Jews, but they still believed in God and followed the teachings of Ishmael. However, they strayed far from the right path over time. They began to engage in idol worshipping, alchohol consumption, gambling, and just about everything that went against the teachings of Ishmael. They treated their women next to animals, and even buried their daughters alive since they preferred boys. There were some Arabs, at the time as well who were Christian, meaning they believed that Jesus was the son of God (from the Islamic point of view they were following the altered Gospel).

Muhammad was born into this disgusting Arab society. Growing up, he was highly respected because he was very honest and trustworthy, and was very good at solving social disputes.

He knew there was something terribly wrong with his society's culture and religion. The Arabs would have all sorts of festivals which involved idol worshipping and alcohol consumption, but Muhammad steered clear of these habits. He often went aone to a cave in Mount Hira, to worship God and ponder about the point of his existence.

Here is his story: One day while he was up in the cave, an angel (Gabriel) came to him. Muhammad was completely terrified. No, angels do not look like beautiful human beings with wings and halos. All we know is this: They have wings, how many we're not sure, but Gabriel specifically has 300 pairs of wings. Angels are huge, and they are terrifying in their true form, at least in a human's point of view.

Anyway, Gabiriel gives Muhammad a command: "Recite,", he says. Muhammad, being illiterate answers: "I am not a reciter." The angel embraces Muhammad with a rip-cracking hug and repeats the command: "Recite," he says. Again Muhammad answers, "I am not a reciter". Gabriel repeats the embrace, asking Muhammad to repeat after him and said: "Recite in the name of your Lord who created! He created man from that which clings. Recite; and thy Lord is most Bountiful, He who has taught by the pen, taught man what he knew not."

Muhammad, still terrified, repeats what the angel said and runs out of the cave. But the Gabriel follows him out of the cave. Muhamad can't even bear to look at the angel, so one can imagine how frightening Gabriel was. Muhammad turns his head to look away, but everywhere he looked, there was Gabriel. Can you even imagine something like that? When Gabriel spreads his wings, he is so Gigantic his form fills the entire sky. Then Gabriel tells Muhammad that he is the prophet of God, and that he is to carry out the God's message to mankind: The Quran.

Okay, so Muhammad (phuh) runs home to his wife Khadija and asks her to cover him (he is still scared of course). She comforts him and he tells her what happened. She calls over a cousin of hers who was Christian. Her cousin hears Muhammad out and confirms that he is indeed a prophet.

The Angel Gabriel visited the Muhammad many times over a period of twenty-three years. Gabriel taught Muhammad the verses, and Muhammad, being illiterate was to memmorize them. He then repeated the verses he was taught to his companions and scribes to record on paper.

But wait a second! What if Muhammad wasn't telling the truth? What if the Quran was not the word of God?

Let's examine this question. The Quran is in Arabic, so only someone who knew Arabic well could have possibly written it. Therefore, there are only 3 possibilities of who could have possibly written it: The Arabs in general, Muhammad, or God.

When looking at the first possibility, one can already have many doubts that it was the Arabs who wrote the Quran. The Quran went against just about every aspect of their lifesyle! The Quran forbids Idol worshipping, but the Arabs loved their Idol gods and were constantly worshipping them and offering sacrifices. The Quran forbid alcohol consumption, but they Arabs freely consumed alcohol. The Quran fobid the maltreatment of women. It said to be kind to women, to treat them as human beings, and it gave women political, economical, and social rights as well. But the Arabs, as I have already said, treated women next to animals. Why would the Arabs write something that goes completely against their socity's ideals? Wouldn't they rather write something that encouraged their lifestyle?

Okay, so that rules out the possibility of the Arabs writing it, so lets look at the second possibility shall we? Could Muhammad have written the Quran?

First I would like to mention this: The Arabic language had reached its peak when it comes to grammar, vocabulary, and poetic expression in the 6th century, during Muhammad's lifetime. Poetry was something highly valued and there were many highly respected poets at the time.

When other poets read the Quran, they were completely baffled by its style and poetic qualities. It was something completely out of this world. But some people just assumed that Muhammad was a poet, and that he was very good with words. But Muhammad was illiterate! It doesn't mean he was stupid, but he would not have they ability to express himself the way the Quran was expressed.

But even if Muhammad was able to express himself so beautifully consider this: The Quran was revealed bit by bit over a period of 23 years, and never did a single aspect of its style change! How could any human keep the exact style of speech for 23 years?

Furthermore, Muslims follow the sayings of the prophet (the hadith) in addition to the Quran. Muhammad expressed his teachings in his own words, which had a completely different style than the Quran. How could a human maintain two completely different styles of speech for 23 years?

But that gives us yet another small possibility: Maybe another individual Arab wrote the Quran, and that person also didn't agree with the pagan Arab culture.

However, the Quran has no author. Anyone who writes a book would put their name on it, but their is no name on the Quran. Furthermore, Muhammad was the only person to ever teach the Quran. He always knew the verses before anyone else.

The Quran also contained many of the same stories found in the Bible and Torah, but Muhammad had never heard of these stories himself! How could he have known? Cristians and Jews from other lands would come to Makkah and ask Muhammad to answer questions that none of the Arabs would have known. But the answer always came, and in the form of Quranic verses.

I'd say that there's enough evidence here that show the Quran is indeed the word of God. What do you make of it?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 06:24 am
That you have not provided a shred of evidence that the Quran, or any other scripture, is the word of any god.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:03 am
"The Noble Quran claimed it 1500 years ago!" Thats interesting, the Koran pre-dates Mohammed?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:16 am
" iron (chemical symbol Fe) has been classified as the 26th element with an atomic weight that varies between 55,8 and 57.
If this compared with the positioning of the verse above and the number of the Surah, it is obvious that there is a special match between the number of the Surah and the atomic weight of iron as well as the number of the Ayah that iron is mentioned in and the number of the element iron. And because the first verse of every Surah is "bismillah hirrahmaan nirraheem", "in the name of Allah most gracious, most merciful" and is not counted as an independent verse, it can be added. The word iron is then in verse 26 of the Surah 57. "

SmileSmile

Shame its doesnt work for all the other elements. What a load of total crap.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 08:09 am
Quote:
The Quran also contained many of the same stories found in the Bible and Torah, but Muhammad had never heard of these stories himself! How could he have known? Cristians and Jews from other lands would come to Makkah and ask Muhammad to answer questions that none of the Arabs would have known. But the answer always came, and in the form of Quranic verses.


This is silly. How do you know Muhammad never heard Biblical stories. Don't you know there was a lot of trade passing through Muhammad's land. Are you trying to tell me that no literature, no books of any kind came to Muhammad through the trade caravans? Mecca was a major caravan center. Good came from India and Africa to the western coast of Arabia. They traveled through Mecca and Medina to Petra in Palestine, where the route split. The northern fork went to Damascus and the southern to Alexandria.

Muhammad was very aware of the religion of the Christians and Jews.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 08:54 am
xingu wrote:
This is silly. How do you know Muhammad never heard Biblical stories.

and
xingu wrote:
Muhammad was very aware of the religion of the Christians and Jews.

1) The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him). In fact, the earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him). The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him).
How then, xingu, could the Prophet (who does not understand a language other than Arabic) have "heard Biblical stories"?

2) The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.

3) The enemies of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that "he was a liar" - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews or Christians.


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 09:03 am
That is gross distortion. Whether or not there were verstions of the Torah or the Gospels available in Arabic in the beginning of the seventh century CE is a matter of speculation on your part, not something you know for a fact. First Aramaic merchants spread Judaism in the Arabian penninsula, so that there were a great many confessional Jews in Arabia when that illiterate gobshite you call the Prophet (may he rot in the earth as is fitting) started spouting his nonsense; then, both Syriac and Nestorian christians spread their cult in the Arabian penninsula.

You've got a lazy, illiterate scrounger who calls himself Mohammed, first living off the wealth of another man by marrying his widow, and then setting himself up as a prophet, and spouting idiocies which justify his whims, such as "marrying" and raping a little girl. Great role model you've got going for you.

You jokers still have not provided a shred of evidence that your alleged divine scripture is the word of god.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 09:11 am
BOOM!
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:02 am
I don't know what happened. I posted a picture of some Jewish children sitting around studying the Torah and they're gone... just gone!
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:44 am
muslim1 wrote:
...
How then, xingu, could the Prophet (who does not understand a language other than Arabic) have "heard Biblical stories"?
He was surrounded by 40 scribes who wrote down all that he said and all that he did, according to muslim tradition. They told him bible stories to pass away the time. btw muslim1 you wrote down the word prophet (above) without saying pbuh etc, just 'who does not understand a language other than Arabic', isnt that a bit of an insult?
0 Replies
 
ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 04:08 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
muslim1 wrote:
...
How then, xingu, could the Prophet (who does not understand a language other than Arabic) have "heard Biblical stories"?
He was surrounded by 40 scribes who wrote down all that he said and all that he did, according to muslim tradition. They told him bible stories to pass away the time. btw muslim1 you wrote down the word prophet (above) without saying pbuh etc, just 'who does not understand a language other than Arabic', isnt that a bit of an insult?




IF THE QURAN IS "STOLEN" FROM THE BIBLE THEN HOW DO JUSTIFY THIS:

btw this is just one of the many flaws in the bible

the bible claimed noah's flood to have been all around the world, while the quran claimed it was much like a local flood and it was only the area that noah and his people lived, not "THE WHOLE WORLD" as the bible claimed. i didnt know back then 1400 years ago they had arab geologist with high tech!

and today geology and archeology proved bible's claims about the flood wrong and proved quran's right.


science proved that the flood was a local flood, as quran calimed, not "the whole world" as the bible did!!

THEN IF THE QURAN WAS STOLEN FROM THE PAST WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT? HUH?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 04:21 pm
ali87 wrote:
THEN IF THE QURAN WAS STOLEN FROM THE PAST WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT? HUH?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
both the bible and the koran are founded on myth and legend. They were good stories on which to built an early polity. The koran actually owes its origin to Samarian texts, and as I'm sure you are aware ali, there are lots of parallels between the Koran and Bible myths. Just try and understand that its not to be taken seriously and it certainly is not the perfect final and unchanging work of God. How can it be? Moses Mohammed Jesus or Jerry Falwell know no more and no less about the ineffable mysteries of the universe than you or i. In fact probably less. There is no such thing as absolute truth, and no absolute arbiter of good or bad. Stop taking it all too seriously. At least thinking Christians understand the bible is to be taken as parable.
0 Replies
 
ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 04:26 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
ali87 wrote:
THEN IF THE QURAN WAS STOLEN FROM THE PAST WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT? HUH?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
both the bible and the koran are founded on myth and legend. They were good stories on which to built an early polity. The koran actually owes its origin to Samarian texts, and as I'm sure you are aware ali, there are lots of parallels between the Koran and Bible myths. Just try and understand that its not to be taken seriously and it certainly is not the perfect final and unchanging work of God. How can it be? Moses Mohammed Jesus or Jerry Falwell know no more and no less about the ineffable mysteries of the universe than you or i. In fact probably less. There is no such thing as absolute truth, and no absolute arbiter of good or bad. Stop taking it all too seriously. At least thinking Christians understand the bible is to be taken as parable.




ACTUALLY THE TORAH/BIBLE WAS TAKEN FROM SUMERIAN/IRAQI MYTHS


AND YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED THIS TO ME:



IF THE QURAN IS "STOLEN" FROM THE BIBLE THEN HOW DO JUSTIFY THIS:

btw this is just one of the many flaws in the bible

the bible claimed noah's flood to have been all around the world, while the quran claimed it was much like a local flood and it was only the area that noah and his people lived, not "THE WHOLE WORLD" as the bible claimed. i didnt know back then 1400 years ago they had arab geologist with high tech!

and today geology and archeology proved bible's claims about the flood wrong and proved quran's right.


science proved that the flood was a local flood, as quran calimed, not "the whole world" as the bible did!!

THEN IF THE QURAN WAS STOLEN FROM THE PAST WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT? HUH?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
0 Replies
 
 

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