WW2 film needs help being historiccally accurate

Audrey did mentioned that she went to the woods as a schoolgirl a lot and carried messages in her shoes from downed airmen. She learned acting there as her life depended on it. When she heard or spotted German soldiers nearby hunting for downed airmen she pretended to picked flowers and smiled at the soldiers who on seeing the seemingly innocent young Edda, her real name, smiledandwished her 'gooten morgan' and went on their way.

That would be "Gutenmorgen" (= good morning). Girls were often used as messengers by the resistance since the Germans had a weak spot for (good looking) girls (And, truth must be said, not all of the German wehrmacht occupying forces were out to make life hell for the occupied).

Thx Paasky.

Audrey Hepburn's biography should also have information on, what is known in Holland as the hunger winter, and how she got to be so thin.

Actually, not all of the Netherlands but only Dutch provinces north of the Rhine and Waal Rivers remained under Germans control and thus were effected by this terrible famine.

Yes, and in particular the provinces of North and South Holland in the West, cut off from the agricultural regions in the East by the railway strike (that was meant to disrupt German transports).

Yes. Audrey mentioned that the Germans were so angry that they held up the trains that supplied food to the Dutch. Many died and Audrey at the age of seventeen was forced to eat tulips and grass at her Arnhem estate. Many Dutch people also had to eat grass. Many on liberation look remarkably cadavorous like those in Auschiwitz, Belsen-Bergen camps. The Canadians who came to Liberate the Dutch have always been dear to the Dutch. Audrey developed Edema i.e. swelling of the ligaments that one sees of African children suffering from malnutrition. When the Allied forces appeared in the streets of Amsterdam there was joy and Audrey gorged on the chocolates given her by the Canadian liberators. She has always been partial to chocolates. This starvation did affect her physiology as she was going thru her growth spurt then. Her mother is normal physically (with normal boobs) so genetically she is not predisposed to skinniness .

My mother too ate potato peels, sugarbeet paste and tulip bulbs and the neighbour's cat (although that may just have been a family joke) and whatever her her remaining brothers could scrounge from streets and fields. They suffered, much like many Germans suffered in the years just after the war.

I am fond of chocolate too, but that has nothing to do with (don't mention) the war :-)

Hm, double post and I did not even click submit twice. How strange.

Anyway. I hope this wandering thread has helped the original poster. It is late now where I live, so I am logging off. Good night (Gute Nacht, God natt, bonne nuit, Hyvää yötä)

Good night Paasky.

HOLY COW!

You are all so great for helping me! Thank You!.... I left my computer for a few hours and I come back to see that this thread is on the 3rd page! Awesome!

I read through all the replies, but honestly, I'm going to have to read through them again to process all that information... Its a lot.

There are some things I can say right now though:

First off, The film is going to be shot in New Jersey because that is where I live... unfortunitly I don't live in Europe... so that means that the film has to tak place in a forest of some kind and maybe there can be a shack... I can't film in a town... I don't have a town that would have looked the way it looks in world war 2 Holland (or anywhere else)....

Also... I still don't really have too strong of a grasp on what exactly I'm going to be able to get away with.... From what I understand, if the parachutist is either a downed pilot or an "Infiltrator" it would be much more believable than him actually being a soldier (like he was dropped into battle)... If this is the case then I'll make him an airman...

NOW... I may repeat some of my questions, but only because i feel as though I am not very clear on the answer just yet: THE BIG QUESTION: Let's just say, for the hell of it, that this movie can take place in any time and ANY place during the war, as long as it just takes place in a forest. IS there any time or place during the war where an airman/pilot/soldier/infilitrator (ANYTHING!) could drop (on purpose or accidental) in a place where a little boy (Of any nationality) could find him and bring him back to his mother?

From what i understand from most of you guys is that the answer is... YES, with a little twisting and a little turning...

_________

Okay... sorry to restate a lot of what I've already asked, but I'm getting different answers i think...

He could be wounded not from bullets but from the fall or crashing thru the trees or landing badly, as Audrey does mention taking things like food and medical supplies to the forest.

There are windmills in the Netherlands so start off the movie with shots of wooden shoes and windmills.

See the movie "A Bridge Too Far" for the kind of houses there and then choose a locality. May be upstate New York with middleclass homes in the Catskills could sub for Holland.

Arnhem is a small town. Remember seeing pictures in Audrey's biography. Go to the Library and research Arnhem.

Drew,

With a little twisting the scenario is, or can be made plausible.

You have the setting for a good tale, but it seems to need further development to make it a whole dramatic film. Local farm near a forest during 1941-42 in occupied Holland. Farm family is heroically hiding refugee child (boy). A couple of German soldiers are at the farm as part of a search for an Allied parachutist. The refugee child is in the open and in danger, but goes into the woods. Child finds parachutist. Wounded? Child tells babysitter/maid, and the two arrange to hide the parachutist. The German soldiers discover the parachutist. That's fine as far as it goes, but this should lead to a dramatic climax ... which is?

People are going to die, but who and how? Once the parachutist is discovered the farm family is as good as dead, so one presumes that the maid won't just turn over the boy and injured parachutist. So how to they strike back, defend themselves? For the maid to kill two trained soldiers unassisted isn't very plausible. If the soldiers separate and are suprised one might be killed without too much trouble. Killing the other soldier would be much harder to do, that's why I suggest the handgrenade ... no special skills required and easily within the capablility of the maid. Once the soldiers are disposed of, the problems still remain. The farm and its family will be shot without doubt if caught. The refugee child's life isn't worth two cents, and an injured parachutist has small odds of survival. This all seems to be leading toward an ambiguous ending, where the black hats at least score a tie and go into extra innings.

Your location just needs to be relatively flat fields bordered by a wood. I think you will probably need some farm buildings for exterior shots, and maybe one or two interiors. Interior sets should be a piece of cake.

Paasky, don't worry about contradicting me. I referred only to paratroops, and was not canvassing the possibility of an airman being in such a situation, which is not how i read the initial scenario. I doubt that very many American flyers would have gone down in Holland before late 1943 or early 1944, though.

American bomber streams (i.e., the dozens of bomber wings which combined to make up the hundreds of bombers going to a target) typically were escorted to Aachen on the German border, and they were on their own after that (late in the war, P51 Mustangs could escort them all the way to their target and back to Aachen, but for most of the war, they went from Aachen to the target and back alone). A Boeing B17 had a crew of ten--pilot, copilot, navigator, bombadier (all officers), radio operator and engineer (could be officers or technical ratings) two waist gunners (operated machine guns at the sides of the plane) a ball turret gunner under the airplane, and a tail gunner (these last would be enlisted men). American bomber crew casualties were horrendous, and most came in the period late 1943 to mid 1944 when there were no escorts after they passed Aachen. At the same time, the B17 could take an incredible amount of punishment and still fly.

So, your American flyer could be an officer, or an enlisted man, he could be a pilot, or a radio man, or just a GI who fires a machine gun. To get to and back from Aachen, the planes would fly over a part of the Ardennes, a heavily wooded area of Belgium on the German border--if you're not married to the idea of Holland, you could locate them in the wooded hills and ridges of the Ardennes. I think you need to drop the idea of the family being Jews, though, it is just too unlikely that a family of Jews would be any where other than in hiding after 1939. They would be at bigger risk than an Allied airman who had to abandon a burning plane.

Here are some pics:



A pre-war photograph taken from Arnhem bridge. The white building in the centre was used as 2nd Battalion HQ during the battle, whilst the larger building on the right served as Brigade HQ. In the background on the right is the Walburgis Church, the spires of which were destroyed during the fighting. Copyright: Gelders Archive, Arnhem.



Devastation as seen from the German Mark III Panzer of Karl-Heinz Kracht as it approaches the Bridge. Copyright: Kabel-Kracht.



Captain Killick's patrol returns to the British lines at the bridge under cover of smoke. This eight-man patrol had moved to the west of the bridge in an attempt to locate the 1st Para Brigade moving into Arnhem. In the event the patrol made little ground before they realised they were in danger of being cut off and so withdrew to the bridge, having suffered no casualties and collected several stragglers and a prisoner (possibly the isolated figure, second from the right). They reported that there were no sounds of battle to the west of Arnhem and so it was correctly assumed that the 1st and 3rd Battalions were some distance away. Copyright: Sam Presser / Maria Austria Instituut.



Field graves around Arnhem bridge, as seen after the war. Copyright: N. Kramer.

Setanta, your new post is more encouraging than your last, thank you, haha... I didn't like hearing, "You need to start over"

Sounds like Ardennes may be a better place to set the film.

Okay.... the latest story idea with the movie taking place in Ardennes, but just keep in mind, that i could have the same story take place back in Holland if some think it is more plausible... I mean... All it takes for me to change location is a title in the beginning of the film saying "Ardennes 1941) or "Holland 1941" or would cloths and barn structure be significantly different?... okay STORY:

In Ardennes, there is a Belgium women (we'll call her MARY for now) tending to her tulips that rest along a barn or shack. Her little son (who is NOT jewish and we'll call him PETER for now) is playing with a stick nearby, he pretends the stick is a gun and pretends to shoot imaginary soldiers. Peter is making a lot of noise and is being a real nuissance to his mother. WHile he plays his little game, he sees two figures far off into the woods, farther for us to make out exactly who they are, but they definitly have guns. He fires his fake gun out at them, with this his mother sees the men off in the distance and tells her son it's time to stop the horse play and go somewhere else. With this the boy wanders off into the woods... NOT TOO FAR... that's important... far enough where his mother would be able to hear him yell, but far enough where he isn't in plane view (because of the trees in the forest)... As Peter plays pretend soldier, he feels something drop on his forehead, he looks up, and there is a person hanging in the tree... He doesn't know who or what it is because the person is covered in a parachute (which also supports him) but it is obvious to us that it is an American pilot. Blood drips from the only visable part of the pilot's body, his leg. Peter continues to stare up into the tree with fascination, then starts to throw rocks up at the pilot and shoots him with his fake gun. A branch in the tree breaks and the soldier falls to the ground, this scares peter very much and he starts to run away, but then he turns back and examines the parachute. He lifts a piece of the parachute and to his surpise he sees the pilot with his eyes barely open. This scares the crap out of him and he runs away to his mother. When he gets back to his mother he tells her and they run off into the woods together. The Mother is shocked at the sight of the pilot who looks as though he is barely hanging onto his life. She grabs him by the shoulders and drags him away. (Okay, so maybe it would be too hard for her to drag him by herself, but we'll just say that she does for now).... back inside their shed, she has the pilot laying down and she is tending to him. meanwhile, back in the woods, Two nazi soldiers are strolling by when they spot the parachute the women accidently left behind. --- time passes--- When Mary steps out of the shed for a second, she notices the approaching nazis holding the parachute.... She knows exactly what they want and what they're going to ask her once they get closer. She starts to panic and runs back inside the shed and she stares at the pilot.... We cut back outside... now the Nazi's are much closer and they drag the parachute behind them.. When they approach the shed, Peter walks outside casually (Putting on on an act). Right behind peter, mary walks out and the soldiers call her over. They ask her about the parachute and she plays dumb. One soldier asks if he can check her shed and she says it is okay.... One soldier goes and checks the shed while the other stands guard outside and continues to talk with the women. Upon entering the shed, the pilot is not in sight... everything seems to be okay.... At that moment the soldier outside notices something odd about Peter... he has a very scared look on his face, also, there is blood on his cloths..... Before the soldier can put two and two together he hears struggle going on inside the shed as WE SEE the pilot jump out with a knife and attack the nazi.... the soldier outside runs over in front of the shed and draws his gun at it... he doesn't fire because he can't see what is going on inside... a monet of silence passes by and then suudenly gunfire comes from inside the shed and the 2nd nazi gets shot and falls to the ground. Then the American Pilot stumbles out of the doorway holding his chest and limping. He gives Mary and Peter a look... not necessarily a "Thank You"... not necessarily a "See you later".... but a look that says, "Sorry, but I can't stay".... and he walks off down the trail... and into the forest.... As he walks off... peter fires his fake stick gun.

Okay... I kinda just made that up as I went along... but I kind of impressed myself because I kind of liked it... I can totally film a movie like this, as long as I can get the location.... This is what I need to know from you guys? Is it Historically accurate? if it isn't, is there anything minor i can change that could make it accurate? if you noticed, there are no longer any jews in the story..... and I eliminated the idea that a family has taken in a jew.... I kind of like this story because it is told from a child's perpective... Shows how war can effect the undeveloped mind... Also... when analyzing... keep in mind that it doesn't have to be PERFECTLY historically accurate.... but it can't be a movie that someone would look at and say, 'WOW, that's ridiculous and I don't want to watch it" It IS a movie and not everyone is a history expert.... look at saving private Ryan.... weren't there people who said that was inplausible? But it was a sweeeeeeet movie...

talk72000, I really appreciate the pictures and they are a real JOY to look at.... but there is no way in the world I'll ever be able to duplicate locations like that.

But I did enjoy the fascinating history.

Here are some more:



British prisoners under guard in the Eusebius Church.
1



Half-tracks of Kampfgruppe Brinkmann parked on the bridge on Thursday 21st September, preparing to move across it to challenge the Polish Brigade at Driel. Behind them, Arnhem still burns. Copyright: Bundesarchiv, BA 183/J27864.



Looking back at the shattered ruins of Arnhem from the German Mark III Panzer of Karl-Heinz Krachtas it crosses the Bridge after the battle. Copyright: Kabel-Kracht.



The devastation around Arnhem Bridge. Copyright: Bundesarchiv.

Seems like the scene in Sept.11 WTC



An eight-man patrol of mixed units, led by Captain Killick of the 89th Field Security Section, moves westwards from the bridge along the Weerdjesstraat in an attempt to locate the 1st Para Brigade moving into Arnhem. In the distance, Dutch civilians look on. In the event the patrol made little ground before they realised they were in danger of being cut off and so withdrew to the bridge, having suffered no casualties and collected several stragglers and a prisoner, who was captured at the crossroads which can be seen a few metres in front of the men. They reported that there were no sounds of battle to the west of Arnhem and so it was correctly assumed that the 1st and 3rd Battalions were some distance away. Copyright: Sam Presser / Maria Austria Instituut.

Arnhem today:

[IMG]An eight-man patrol of mixed units, led by Captain Killick of the 89th Field Security Section, moves westwards from the bridge along the Weerdjesstraat in an attempt to locate the 1st Para Brigade moving into Arnhem. In the distance, Dutch civilians look on. In the event the patrol made little ground before they realised they were in danger of being cut off and so withdrew to the bridge, having suffered no casualties and collected several stragglers and a prisoner, who was captured at the crossroads which can be seen a few metres in front of the men. They reported that there were no sounds of battle to the west of Arnhem and so it was correctly assumed that the 1st and 3rd Battalions were some distance away. Copyright: Sam Presser / Maria Austria Instituut.[/IMG]

The home of Kate ter Horst, near Oosterbeek Church, inside of which many wounded Airborne soldiers received treatment as the battle raged. Copyright: Johan van Pelt.



Johannahoeve Farm today. The long building in the centre used to serve as a stable block, but has since been converted into appartments for retired Mill Hill priests.



The rebuilt Oosterbeek Church, as it stands today. Copyright: Martin Middlebrook.



Johannahoeve Farm, as seen today, home to some of the 7th KOSB's during their defence of LZ-L. Copyright: Martin Middlebrook.



The Museum, photographed in the modern day. Copyright: Martin Middlebrook.

'Bridge Too Far' Arnhem