2
   

So what if Iran has the bomb?

 
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 07:29 pm
apologize for the length of the article, McGen.
But it does address the agenda the US has for Iran, and why. Might be worth a read.

The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target:

The Emerging Euro-denominated International Oil Marker

by William Clark
www.globalresearch.ca 27 October 2004
The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html

The Iranians are about to commit an "offense" far greater than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro of Iraq's oil exports in the fall of 2000. Numerous articles have revealed Pentagon planning for operations against Iran as early as 2005. While the publicly stated reasons will be over Iran's nuclear ambitions, there are unspoken macroeconomic drivers explaining the Real Reasons regarding the 2nd stage of petrodollar warfare - Iran's upcoming euro-based oil Bourse.



In 2005-2006, The Tehran government has a developed a plan to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-denominated international oil-trading mechanism. This means that without some form of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project for U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on U.S. dollar supremacy in the international oil market

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."

- James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

Madison's words of wisdom should be carefully considered by the American people and world community. The rapidly deteriorating situation on the ground in Iraq portends an even direr situation for American soldiers and the People of the world community - should the Bush administration pursue their strategy regarding Iran. Current geopolitical tensions between the United States and Iran extend beyond the publicly stated concerns regarding Iran's nuclear intentions, and likely include a proposed Iranian "petroeuro system" for oil trade. Similar to the Iraq war, upcoming operations against Iran relate to the macroeconomics of the `petrodollar recycling' and the unpublicized but real challenge to U.S. dollar supremacy from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.

It is now obvious the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam's long-gone WMD program and certainly less to do to do with fighting International terrorism than it has to do with gaining control over Iraq's hydrocarbon reserves and in doing so maintaining the U.S. dollar as the monopoly currency for the critical international oil market. Throughout 2004 statements by former administration insiders revealed that the Bush/Cheney administration entered into office with the intention of toppling Saddam Hussein. Indeed, the neoconservative strategy of installing a pro-U.S. government in Baghdad along with multiple U.S. military bases was partly designed to thwart further momentum within OPEC towards a "petroeuro." However, subsequent events show this strategy to be fundamentally flawed, with Iran moving forward towards a petroeuro system for international oil trades, while Russia discusses this option.

Candidly stated, ?'Operation Iraqi Freedom' was a war designed to install a pro-U.S. puppet in Iraq, establish multiple U.S military bases before the onset of Peak Oil, and to reconvert Iraq back to petrodollars while hoping to thwart further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. [1] In 2003 the global community witnessed a combination of petrodollar warfare and oil depletion warfare. The majority of the world's governments - especially the E.U., Russia and China - were not amused - and neither are the U.S. soldiers who are currently stationed in Iraq.

Indeed, the author's original pre-war hypothesis was validated shortly after the war in a Financial Times article dated June 5th, 2003, which confirmed Iraqi oil sales returning to the international markets were once again denominated in US dollars, not euros. Not surprisingly, this detail was never mentioned in the five US major media conglomerates who appear to censor this type of information, but confirmation of this vital fact provides insight into one of the crucial - yet overlooked - rationales for 2003 the Iraq war.

"The tender, for which bids are due by June 10, switches the transaction back to dollars -- the international currency of oil sales - despite the greenback's recent fall in value. Saddam Hussein in 2000 insisted Iraq's oil be sold for euros, a political move, but one that improved Iraq's recent earnings thanks to the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar." [2]

Unfortunately, it has become clear that yet another manufactured war, or some type of ill-advised covert operation is inevitable under President George W. Bush, should he win the 2004 Presidential Election. Numerous news reports over the past several months have revealed that the neoconservatives are quietly - but actively - planning for the second petrodollar war, this time against Iran.

"Deep in the Pentagon, admirals and generals are updating plans for possible U.S. military action in Syria and Iran. The Defense Department unit responsible for military planning for the two troublesome countries is "busier than ever," an administration official says. Some Bush advisers characterize the work as merely an effort to revise routine plans the Pentagon maintains for all contingencies in light of the Iraq war. More skittish bureaucrats say the updates are accompanied by a revived campaign by administration conservatives and neocons for more hard-line U.S. policies toward the countries"…"Even hard-liners acknowledge that given the U.S. military commitment in Iraq, a U.S. attack on either country would be an unlikely last resort; covert action of some kind is the favored route for Washington hard-liners who want regime change in Damascus and Tehran."

"…administration hawks are pinning their hopes on regime change in Tehran - by covert means, preferably, but by force of arms if necessary. Papers on the idea have circulated inside the administration, mostly labeled "draft" or "working draft" to evade congressional subpoena powers and the Freedom of Information Act. Informed sources say the memos echo the administration's abortive Iraq strategy: oust the existing regime, swiftly install a pro-U.S. government in its place (extracting the new regime's promise to renounce any nuclear ambitions) and get out. This daredevil scheme horrifies U.S. military leaders, and there's no evidence that it has won any backers at the cabinet level." [3]

To date, one of the more difficult technical obstacles concerning a euro-based oil transaction trading system is the lack of a euro-denominated oil pricing standard, or oil ?'marker' as it is referred to in the industry. The three current oil markers are U.S. dollar denominated, which include the West Texas Intermediate crude (WTI), Norway Brent crude, and the UAE Dubai crude. However, since the spring of 2003, Iran has required payments in the euro currency for its European and Asian/ACU exports - although the oil pricing for trades are still denominated in the dollar. [4]

Therefore, a potentially significant news development was reported in June 2004 announcing Iran's intentions to create of an Iranian oil Bourse. (The word "bourse" refers to a stock exchange for securities trading, and is derived from the French stock exchange in Paris, the Federation Internationale des Bourses de Valeurs.) This announcement portended competition would arise between the Iranian oil bourse and London's International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), as well as the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX). It should be noted that both the IPE and NYMEX are owned by U.S. corporations.

The macroeconomic implications of a successful Iranian Bourse are noteworthy. Considering that Iran has switched to the euro for its oil payments from E.U. and ACU customers, it would be logical to assume the proposed Iranian Bourse will usher in a fourth crude oil marker - denominated in the euro currency. Such a development would remove the main technical obstacle for a broad-based petroeuro system for international oil trades. From a purely economic and monetary perspective, a petroeuro system is a logical development given that the European Union imports more oil from OPEC producers than does the U.S., and the E.U. accounts for 45% of imports into the Middle East (2002 data).

Acknowledging that many of the oil contracts for Iran and Saudi Arabia are linked to the United Kingdom's Brent crude marker, the Iranian bourse could create a significant shift in the flow of international commerce into the Middle East. If Iran's bourse becomes a successful alternative for oil trades, it would challenge the hegemony currently enjoyed by the financial centers in both London (IPE) and New York (NYMEX), a factor not overlooked in the following article:

"Iran is to launch an oil trading market for Middle East and OPEC producers that could threaten the supremacy of London's International Petroleum Exchange."

"…He [Mr. Asemipour] played down the dangers that the new exchange could eventually pose for the IPE or Nymex, saying he hoped they might be able to cooperate in some way."

"…Some industry experts have warned the Iranians and other OPEC producers that western exchanges are controlled by big financial and oil corporations, which have a vested interest in market volatility.

The IPE, bought in 2001 by a consortium that includes BP, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, was unwilling to discuss the Iranian move yesterday. "We would not have any comment to make on it at this stage," said an IPE spokeswoman. "[5]

It is unclear at the time of writing, if this project will be successful, or could it prompt overt or covert U.S. interventions - thereby signaling the second phase of petrodollar warfare in the Middle East. News articles in June 2004 revealed the discredited neoconservative sycophant Ahmed Chalabi may have revealed his knowledge to Iran regarding U.S. military planning for operations against that nation.

"The reason for the US breakup with Ahmed Chalabi, the Shiite Iraqi politician, could be his leak of Pentagon plans to invade Iran before Christmas 2005, but the American government has not changed its objective, and the attack could happen earlier if president George W. Bush is re-elected, or later if John Kerry is sworn in."

"….Diplomats said Chalabi was alerted to the Pentagon plans and in the process of trying to learn more to tell the Iranians, he invited suspicions of US officials, who subsequently got the Iraqi police to raid the compound of his Iraqi National Congress on 20 May 2004, leading to a final break up of relations."

"While the US is uncertain how much of the attack plans were leaked to Iran, it could change some of the invasion tactics, but the broad parameters would be kept intact." [6]

Regardless of the potential U.S. response to an Iranian petroeuro system, the emergence of an oil exchange market in the Middle East is not entirely surprising given the domestic peaking and decline of oil exports in the U.S. and U.K, in comparison to the remaining oil reserves in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. According to Mohammad Javad Asemipour, an advisor to Iran's oil ministry and the individual responsible for this project, this new oil exchange is scheduled to begin oil trading in March 2005.

"Asemipour said the platform should be trading crude, natural gas and petrochemicals by the start of the new Iranian year, which falls on March 21, 2005.

He said other members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries - Iran is the producer group's second-largest producer behind Saudi Arabia - as well as oil producers from the Caspian region would eventually participate in the exchange." [7]

(Note: the most recent Iranian news report from October 5, 2004 stated: "Iran's oil bourse will start trading by early 2006" which suggests a delay from the original March 21, 2005 target date). [8] Additionally, according to the following report, Saudi investors may be interested in participating in the Iranian oil exchange market, further illustrating why petrodollar hegemony is becoming unsustainable.

"Chris Cook, who previously worked for the IPE and now offers consultancy services to markets through Partnerships Consulting LLP in London, commented: "Post-9/11, there has also been an interest in the project from the Saudis, who weren't interested in participating before."

"Others familiar with Iran's economy said since 9/11, Saudi Arabian investors are opting to invest in Iran rather than traditional western markets as the kingdom's relations with the U.S. have weakened Iran's oil ministry has made no secret of its eagerness to attract much needed foreign investment in its energy sector and broaden its choice of oil buyers."

"…Along with several other members of OPEC, Iranian oil officials believe crude trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange and the IPE is controlled by the oil majors and big financial companies, who benefit from market volatility."[9]

One of the Federal Reserve's nightmares may begin to unfold in 2005 or 2006, when it appears international buyers will have a choice of buying a barrel of oil for $50 dollars on the NYMEX and IPE - or purchase a barrel of oil for €37 - €40 euros via the Iranian Bourse. This assumes the euro maintains its current 20-25% appreciated value relative to the dollar - and assumes that some sort of "intervention" is not undertaken against Iran. The upcoming bourse will introduce petrodollar versus petroeuro currency hedging, and fundamentally new dynamics to the biggest market in the world - global oil and gas trades

During an important speech in April 2002, Mr. Javad Yarjani, an OPEC executive, described three pivotal events that would facilitate an OPEC transition to euros. [10] He stated this would be based on (1) if and when Norway's Brent crude is re-dominated in euros, (2) if and when the U.K. adopts the euro, and (3) whether or not the euro gains parity valuation relative to the dollar, and the EU's proposed expansion plans were successful. (Note: Both of the later two criteria have transpired: the euro's valuation has been above the dollar since late 2002, and the euro-based E.U. enlarged in May 2004 from 12 to 22 countries). In the meantime, the United Kingdom remains uncomfortably juxtaposed between the financial interests of the U.S. banking nexus (New York/Washington) and the E.U. financial centers (Paris/Frankfurt).

The implementation of the proposed Iranian oil Bourse (exchange) in 2005/2006 - if successful in utilizing the euro as its oil transaction currency standard - essentially negates the necessity of the previous two criteria as described by Mr. Yarjani regarding the solidification of a "petroeuro" system for international oil trades. [10] It should also be noted that during 2003-2004 Russia and China have both increased their central bank holdings of the euro currency, which appears to be a coordinated move to facilitate the anticipated ascendance of the euro as a second World Reserve currency. [11] [12] In the meantime, the United Kingdom is uncomfortable juxtaposed between the financial interests of the U.S. (New York/Washington) banking nexus and that of the E.U. financial center (Paris/Frankfurt).

The immediate question for Americans? Will the neoconservatives attempt to intervene covertly and/or overtly in Iran during 2005 in an effort to prevent the formation of a euro-denominated crude oil pricing mechanism? Commentators in India are quite correct in their assessment that a U.S. intervention in Iran is likely to prove disastrous for the United States, making matters much worse regarding international terrorism, not to the mention potential effects on the U.S. economy.

"The giving up on the terror war while Iran invasion plans are drawn up makes no sense, especially since the previous invasion and current occupation of Iraq has further fuelled Al-Qaeda terrorism after 9/11."

"…It is obvious that sucked into Iraq, the US has limited military manpower left to combat the Al-Qaeda elsewhere in the Middle East and South Central Asia,"…"and NATO is so seriously cross with America that it hesitates to provides troops in Iraq, and no other country is willing to bail out America outside its immediate allies like Britain, Italy, Australia and Japan."

"….If it [U.S.] intervenes again, it is absolutely certain it will not be able to improve the situation - Iraq shows America has not the depth or patience to create a new civil society - and will only make matters worse."

"There is a better way, as the constructive engagement of Libya's Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has shown…."Iran is obviously a more complex case than Libya, because power resides in the clergy, and Iran has not been entirely transparent about its nuclear programme, but the sensible way is to take it gently, and nudge it to moderation. Regime change will only worsen global Islamist terror, and in any case, Saudi Arabia is a fitter case for democratic intervention, if at all." [13]

It is abundantly clear that a 2nd Bush term will bring a confrontation and possible war with Iran during 2005. Colin Powell as the Secretary of the State, has moderated neoconservative military designs regarding Iran, but Powell has stated that he will be leaving at the end of Bush's first term. Of course if John Kerry wins in November, he might pursue a similar military strategy. However, it is my opinion that Kerry is more likely to pursue multilateral negotiations regarding the Iranian issues.

Clearly, there are numerous risks regarding neoconservative strategy towards Iran. First, unlike Iraq, Iran has a robust military capability. Secondly, a repeat of any "Shock and Awe" tactics is not advisable given that Iran has installed sophisticated anti-ship missiles on the Island of Abu Musa, and therefore controls the critical Strait of Hormuz. [14] In the case of a U.S. attack, a shut down of the Strait of Hormuz - where all of the Persian Gulf bound oil tankers must pass - could easily trigger a market panic with oil prices skyrocketing to $100 per barrel or more. World oil production is now flat out, and a major interruption would escalate oil prices to a level that would set off a global Depression. Why are the neoconservatives willing to takes such risks? Simply stated - their goal is U.S. global domination.

A successful Iranian bourse would solidify the petroeuro as an alternative oil transaction currency, and thereby end the petrodollar's hegemonic status as the monopoly oil currency. Therefore, a graduated approach is needed to avoid precipitous U.S. economic dislocations. Multilateral compromise with the EU and OPEC regarding oil currency is certainly preferable to an ?'Operation Iranian Freedom,' or perhaps an attempted CIA-sponsored repeat of the 1953 Iranian coup - operation "Ajax" part II. [15] Indeed, there are very good reasons for U.S. military leaders to be "horrified" at the thought of a second Bush term in which Cheney and the neoconservatives would be unrestrained in their tragic pursuit of U.S. global domination.

"NEWSWEEK has learned that the CIA and DIA have war-gamed the likely consequences of a U.S. pre-emptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. No one liked the outcome. As an Air Force source tells it, "The war games were unsuccessful at preventing the conflict from escalating." [16]

Despite the impressive power of the U.S. military and the ability of our intelligence agencies to facilitate "interventions," it would be perilous and possibly ruinous for the U.S to intervene in Iran given the dire situation in Iraq. The Monterey Institute of International Studies provided an extensive analysis of the possible consequences of a preemptive attack on Iran's nuclear facilities and warned of the following:

"Considering the extensive financial and national policy investment Iran has committed to its nuclear projects, it is almost certain that an attack by Israel or the United States would result in immediate retaliation. A likely scenario includes an immediate Iranian missile counterattack on Israel and U.S. bases in the Gulf, followed by a very serious effort to destabilize Iraq and foment all-out confrontation between the United States and Iraq's Shi'i majority. Iran could also opt to destabilize Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states with a significant Shi'i population, and induce Lebanese Hizbullah to launch a series of rocket attacks on Northern Israel."

"…An attack on Iranian nuclear facilities…could have various adverse effects on U.S. interests in the Middle East and the world. Most important, in the absence of evidence of an Iranian illegal nuclear program, an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities by the U.S. or Israel would be likely to strengthen Iran's international stature and reduce the threat of international sanctions against Iran. Such an event is more likely to embolden and expand Iran's nuclear aspirations and capabilities in the long term"…"one thing is for certain, it would not be just another Osirak. " [17]

Synopsis

Regardless of whatever choice the U.S. electorate makes in the upcoming Presidential Election a military expedition may still go ahead.

This essay was written out of my own patriotic duty in an effort to inform Americans of the challenges that lie ahead. On November 25, 2004, the issues involving Iran's nuclear program will be addressed by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and possibly referred to the U.N. Security Council if the results are unsatisfactory. Regardless of the IAEA findings, it appears increasingly likely the U.S. will use the specter of nuclear weapon proliferation as a pretext for an intervention, similar to the fears invoked in the previous WMD campaign regarding Iraq.

Pentagon sources confirm the Bush administration could undertake a desperate military strategy to thwart Iran's nuclear ambitions while simultaneously attempting to prevent the Iranian oil Bourse from initiating a euro-based system for oil trades. The later would require forced "regime change" and the U.S. occupation of Iran. Obviously this would require a military draft. Objectively speaking, the post-war debacle in Iraq has clearly shown that such Imperial policies will be a catastrophic failure. Alternatively, perhaps a more enlightened U.S. administration could undertake multilateral negotiations with the EU and OPEC regarding a dual oil-currency system, in conjunction with global monetary reform. Either way, U.S. policy makers will soon face two difficult choices: monetary compromise or continued petrodollar warfare.

"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts."

- Abraham Lincoln

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. Whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights."

- Thomas Jefferson




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References:

[1] "Revisited - The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War with Iraq: A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth," January 2003 (updated January 2004) http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

[2] Hoyos, Carol & Morrison, Kevin, "Iraq returns to the international oil market," Financial Times, June 5, 2003 http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/Web%20Pages/FINANCIAL%20TIMES_Iraq%20returns%20to%20international%20oil%20market.htm

[3] "War-Gaming the Mullahs: The U.S. weighs the price of a pre-emptive strike," Newsweek, September 27 issue, 2004. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6039135/site/newsweek/

[4] Shivkumar, C., "Iran offers oil to Asian union on easier terms," The Hindu Business Line (June 16, 2003). http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/bline/2003/06/17/stories/2003061702380500.htm

[5] Macalister, Terry, "Iran takes on west's control of oil trading," The [UK] Guardian, June 16, 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1239644,00.html

[6] "US to invade Iran before 2005 Christmas," News Insight: Public Affairs Magazine, June 9, 2004 http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=2789

[7] "Iran Eyes Deal on Oil Bourse; IPE Chairman Visits Tehran," Rigzone.com (July 8, 2004) http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=14588

[8] "Iran's oil bourse expects to start by early 2006," Reuters, October 5, 2004 http://www.iranoilgas.com

[9] "Iran Eyes Deal on Oil Bourse, IPE Chairman Visits Tehran," ibid.

[10] "The Choice of Currency for the Denomination of the Oil Bill," Speech given by Javad Yarjani, Head of OPEC's Petroleum Market Analysis Dept, on The International Role of the Euro (Invited by the Spanish Minister of Economic Affairs during Spain's Presidency of the EU) (April 14, 2002, Oviedo, Spain)
http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/Speeches/sp2002/spAraqueSpainApr14.htm

[11] Russia shifts to euro as foreign currency reserves soar," AFP, June 9, 2003
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7214-3.cfm

[12] "China to diversify foreign exchange reserves," China Business Weekly, May 8, 2004 http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/08/content_328744.htm

[13] "Terror & regime change: Any US invasion of Iran will have terrible consequences," News Insight: Public Affairs Magazine, June 11, 2004 http://www.indiareacts.com/archivedebates/nat2.asp?recno=908&ctg=World

[14] Analysis of Abu Musa Island, www.globalsecurity.org http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/abu-musa.htm

[15] J.W. Smith, "Destabilizing a Newly-Free Iran," The Institute for Economic Democracy, 2003 http://www.ied.info/books/why/control.html

[16] "War-Gaming the Mullahs: The U.S. weighs the price of a pre-emptive strike," ibid.

[17] Salama, Sammy and Ruster, Karen,"A Preemptive Attack on Iran's Nuclear Facilities: Possible Consequences," Monterry Institute of International Studies, August 12, 2004 (updated September 9, 2004) http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/040812.htm

[18] Philips, Peter, "Censored 2004," Project Censored, Seven Stories Press, (2003) http://www.projectcensored.org/

Story #19: U.S. Dollar vs. the Euro: Another Reason for the Invasion of Iraq http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/19.html



William Clark is the author of an award-winning essay published online in early 2003 entitled: 'The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War with Iraq: A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth.'

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html , also published by Global Research at http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA302A.html This essay received a 2003 ?'Project Censored' award, and was published in the book, Censored 2004) [18] This pre-war essay hypothesized that Saddam sealed his fate when he announced in September 2000 that Iraq was no longer going to accept dollars for oil being sold under the UN's oil-for-food program, and switch to the euro as Iraq's oil export transaction currency.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: Below is a description of this author's upcoming book: (Available spring 2005.)

Petrodollar Warfare
Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar
William Clark

The invasion of Iraq may well be remembered as the first oil currency war. Far from being a response to 9-11 terrorism or Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, Petrodollar Warfare argues that the invasion was precipitated by two converging phenomena: the imminent peak in global oil production, and the ascendance of the euro currency.

Energy analysts agree that world oil supplies are about to peak, after which there will be a steady decline in supplies of oil. Iraq, possessing the world's second largest oil reserves, was therefore already a target of U.S. geostrategic interests. Together with the fact that Iraq had switched its oil transaction currency to euros -- rather than U.S. dollars -- the Bush administration's unreported aim was to prevent further OPEC momentum in favor of the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency standard.

Meticulously researched, Petrodollar Warfare examines U.S. dollar hegemony and the unsustainable macroeconomics of 'petrodollar recycling,' pointing out that the issues underlying the Iraq war also apply to geopolitical tensions between the U.S. and other countries including the European Union (E.U.), Iran, Venezuela, and Russia. The author warns that without changing course, the American Experiment will end the way all empires end - with military over-extension and subsequent economic decline. He recommends the multilateral pursuit of both energy and monetary reforms within a United Nations framework to create a more balanced global energy and monetary system thereby reducing the possibility of future oil-depletion and oil currency-related warfare.

A sober call for an end to aggressive U.S. unilateralism, Petrodollar Warfare is a unique contribution to the debate about the future global political economy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email this article to a friend

To become a Member of Global Research

To express your opinion on this article, join the discussion at Global Research's News and Discussion Forum , at http://globalresearch.ca.myforums.net/index.php

The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at www.globalresearch.ca grants permission to cross-post original Global Research (Canada) articles in their entirety, or any portions thereof, on community internet sites, as long as the text & title of the article are not modified. The source must be acknowledged as follows: Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at www.globalresearch.ca . For cross-postings, kindly use the active URL hyperlink address of the original CRG article. The author's copyright note must be displayed. (For articles from other news sources, check with the original copyright holder, where applicable.). For publication of Global Research (Canada) articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: [email protected]

For media inquiries: [email protected]

© Copyright WILLIAM CLARK, CRG 2004.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 09:36 pm
Re: So what if Iran has the bomb?
pachelbel wrote:
In the second place, there is no proof that Iran really wants to develop nuclear weapons.


Other than the fact that they were developing technology that could build them, and keeping it secret from the world.



pachelbel wrote:
They have a reasonable explanation for why they want to develop nuclear power. Oil is their biggest and most valuable export. The less they use for domestic purposes, the more they will have to export.


I don't buy it.

They don't use that much electricity, and nuclear power isn't exactly free.



pachelbel wrote:
I'm not one of those people who think the world will end with a nuclear explosion. There have been a lot of nuclear explosions. We dropped two on Japan, and all the nuclear powers tested their bombs in the atmosphere as well as underground. Despite the urban legends about plutonium, we are all still here. A nuclear weapon is, after all, a bomb, and like all bombs there is a limit to its radius of destruction.


Some of us, while out of danger of Iran's nukes, are friends to Israel, and hope to prevent Israel from being nuked.



pachelbel wrote:
Moreover, they don't have the planes capable of taking enough ordnance to do sufficient damage to fortified, underground installations that are widely dispersed.


That is where the author is completely wrong.

We've given Israel the necessary firepower to take out any Iranian facility that can be identified.



pachelbel wrote:
Iran, despite its problems, is not without the means to retaliate, whether attacked by Israel or the U.S. One thing the Iranians might do is wreck the oil facilities in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, as well as closing the valves on their own oil. This would throw the world oil market into chaos, and the world economy would quickly follow.


Iran would respond by starting a war with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia?



pachelbel wrote:
The Iranians are just as sensible and levelheaded as anyone else. Don't buy the propaganda that they are all a bunch of crazies.


The problem isn't the Iranian people. The problem is the deranged lunatic who is in charge of Iran.



pachelbel wrote:
There is some sense to what he says here, I believe


I disagree.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 09:38 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Unstable would include, I presume, Israel?


Nope.



pachelbel wrote:
So, why are they allowed to have WMD's?


Because they never signed the NPT.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 09:40 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Because Iran is not an unstable country. It is a democratically elected government.


A democracy where the religious fanatics prevent the moderates from running for office?

That's no democracy.



pachelbel wrote:
'President George W. Bush is about to have his bubble of delusions pricked. We are not the world's only superpower,


Yes we are.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 09:49 pm
pachelbel wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Israel should not NEED to ask why the hostility is aimed their way. They have dealt quite effectively with it thus far and will continue to do so going forward.



Yes, with the monetary help from the U.S. which puts the U.S. in harm's way from Arabs; what 9/11 was all about.


9/11 was about a lot more than Israel.

Osama also wants to destroy all the moderate governments of Muslim countries, as well as destroy Israel.



pachelbel wrote:
That the Jews have been in Arab country for the last 100 years means what, exactly? The Arabs were there centuries before.


Nope. The Jews were there first.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 10:02 pm
Re: So what if Iran has the bomb?
oralloy wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Moreover, they don't have the planes capable of taking enough ordnance to do sufficient damage to fortified, underground installations that are widely dispersed.


That is where the author is completely wrong.

We've given Israel the necessary firepower to take out any Iranian facility that can be identified.


A couple articles of note from the last couple years:


Quote:
U.S. to sell 5,000 smart bombs to Israel
Deal comes amid concerns about Iran's nuclear aspirations

Associated Press
Updated: 10:17 p.m. ET Sept. 21, 2004

JERUSALEM - The United States will sell Israel nearly 5,000 smart bombs in one of the largest weapons deals between the allies in years, Israeli military officials said Tuesday.

The deal will expand Israel's existing supply of the weapons, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Israel's announcement came after the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible military sale to Israel worth as much as $319 million.

The agency said in a June 1 press release that the sale "will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East."

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on Tuesday that funding for the sale will come from U.S. military aid to Israel.

Disclosure of the deal comes amid escalating Israeli worries over Iran's nuclear development program.

Israel and a number of Western countries fear that Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons. Iran says its nuclear program is for generating electricity.

Defying a key demand set by 35 nations, Iran announced Tuesday that it has started converting raw uranium into the gas needed for enrichment, a process that can be used to make nuclear weapons.

The Israeli military officials would not say whether the bombs might be intended for use against Iran. But they ruled out the possibility that they could be used against Palestinian targets.

Israel drew heavy criticism after a one-ton smart bomb meant for a senior Palestinian militant also killed 15 civilians in an attack in the Gaza Strip in July 2002.

The bombs Israel is acquiring include airborne versions, guidance units, training bombs and detonators. They are guided by an existing Israeli satellite used by the military.

As part of the deal, Israel will receive 3,000 one-ton bombs, 1,000 half-ton bombs and 500 quarter-ton bombs, the military officials said.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6067629



Quote:
U.S. OKs sale of bunker busters to Israel
Move seen as warning to Iran on nuclear ambitions

Associated Press
Updated: 7:03 p.m. ET April 27, 2005

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.

The proposed deal, worth as much as $30 million, would provide Israel with the capability to drop 5,000-pound bombs that can penetrate bunkers and other buried structures. The GBU-28 bombs can be dropped from Israel's American-made F-15 fighters.

"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East," the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a press release.

Although the proposed sale will give Israel a significant new capability to attack underground targets, the agency said the move would not upset the balance of military power in the region.

"The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities," said John Pike, a military expert at Globalsecurity.org in Alexandria, Va.

The proposed sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7658949
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 10:14 pm
Oh, please. There were Arabs, Byzantines, Greeks, Jews: not any one group. Jews were kicked out by the Romans from what is today Israel in 70 AD. It's called the Diaspora. They were dispersed all over until the Balfour Declaration (see article 1st page), in which 700,000 Arabs were supposed to live in harmony with Jews.

As for your other comment:
'A democracy where the religious fanatics prevent the moderates from running for office?

That's no democracy'

Are you talking about the US here?

I still think it's very interesting that the Christians want to protect a country, Israel, in view of the fact that they don't like Jesus. What are they afraid of?

Also, the US is not the big superpower anymore. You'll have to get used to that fact. Maybe you'll need some therapy to help you get over the visions of grandeur that seem rife in America? China and India will be the big superpowers in teh 21st century. America is spending far too much and producing far too little to be considered a big player anymore. They are a liability, not an asset.

As for the 'deranged lunatic' you claim is in charge in Iran, what do you call the idiot running the White House?

Didn't think you read the above article, 'The Real Reason Iran Is The next Target, but you should before you post again. I'd like to hear your take on it. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2006 11:54 pm
I read your article when a poster I respect furnished a link earlier. There's some merit there, and it is most certainly a factor, but not the deciding factor in Iraq or Iran. The author let his passion pull him a little too far from reason, not unlike what you are doing here.

The United States isn't even a superpower anymore? Rolling Eyes By what measure?... Reproduction? Not only do we have by far the most capable military and nuclear arsenal; we also still have nearly half of the wealth on earth. What measure do you use? The United States isn't only a superpower… it is the world's only superpower. That's not a delusion of grandeur; it is an easily substantiated fact. I'd recommend the CIA World Fact Book for all manner of fact checking, be it financial, military, population, birth rates, death rates, you name it.

Not afraid of nukes either, eh? Some of our weaker H-bombs are only about one thousand times more powerful than what was delivered to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Seems like something that could do a lot of damage, that.

And what precisely do you think the Israelis should do after living in Israel all these years? Leave? I could understand if you were merely asking them to return to 1967 borders or something, but you seem to think perpetual hatred of them for a land grab they didn't themselves facilitate is AOK. That sounds just to you? Tell me; do you still hate the Germans? How about the Japanese? Ugly, unfair things happen in wars (and in peace) but that doesn't mean civilized people can't get over it… especially after a couple generations go by. Now I'm not anti-Palestinian or anti-Arab, at all, but I do think the Israelis have a right to exist.

Israel: both you and the author you quoted severely underestimate their military prowess. If we left the Israeli/Palestine problem to work itself out, Israel would likely solve it very swiftly, in ways none of us would approve of. You would do to do some fact-checking on military muscle and learn where the military power is concentrated before commenting on it.

China: you think our dept to China puts them in the command seat sanction-wise? Really? While do stand to lose our cheap crap at Wal-mart and whatnot, they'd stand to lose their entire economy. China, contrary to popular opinion in the "America sucks club" is NOT a member of the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) club... but they are close enough. There will be no war with China (we'd suffer too much and they'd be obliterated).

Iran: Ahmedinejad speaks like an unstable madman who, even as the leader of the land, has no more sense than to come right out and say Israel should be wiped from the map. So what if he builds the tools that could do just that? This strikes me as pretty naive. There are plenty of good things to say about Iran and if you look around A2K you'll find folks who do a fine job of defending them. You won't find too many critical thinkers defending the words of Ahmedinejad or the man himself because he just isn't worthy. I'd like to see him in control of an A-Bomb just about as much as I'd like to see Kim Jong Il in control of an H-bomb (again, that's 1,000 times more boom). Drawing cartoonish parallels to Bush are a sorry substitute for an argument. Whatever you may feel about Bush, I assure you, has no logical bearing on an assessment of Ahmedinejad... and the case against Ahmedinejad is a very reasonable consideration in deciding whether it matters if Iran gets a nuke. If you can't recognize that...
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2006 12:13 am
pachelbel wrote:
Oh, please. There were Arabs, Byzantines, Greeks, Jews: not any one group. Jews were kicked out by the Romans from what is today Israel in 70 AD. It's called the Diaspora. They were dispersed all over until the Balfour Declaration (see article 1st page), in which 700,000 Arabs were supposed to live in harmony with Jews.


That doesn't invalidate their right to return and reclaim their homeland.



pachelbel wrote:
As for your other comment:
'A democracy where the religious fanatics prevent the moderates from running for office?

That's no democracy'

Are you talking about the US here?


Falsely accusing the US and/or Israel of Iran's problems doesn't seem to achieve anything worthwhile.



pachelbel wrote:
I still think it's very interesting that the Christians want to protect a country, Israel, in view of the fact that they don't like Jesus. What are they afraid of?


I'm a Xian, and I want to protect Israel because they are our friend and ally.



pachelbel wrote:
Also, the US is not the big superpower anymore. You'll have to get used to that fact. Maybe you'll need some therapy to help you get over the visions of grandeur that seem rife in America?


We won't have to get used to it, because it isn't a fact.

The Romans also had people bitterly predicting their imminent demise for centuries. They didn't pay it much heed, and went on being a superpower. We shall do the same.



pachelbel wrote:
China and India will be the big superpowers in teh 21st century. America is spending far too much and producing far too little to be considered a big player anymore. They are a liability, not an asset.


China and India may approach us economically. But it is unlikely that they will approach us militarily.



pachelbel wrote:
As for the 'deranged lunatic' you claim is in charge in Iran, what do you call the idiot running the White House?


I don't call him either a deranged lunatic or an idiot.



pachelbel wrote:
Didn't think you read the above article, 'The Real Reason Iran Is The next Target, but you should before you post again. I'd like to hear your take on it. Thank you.


It doesn't bother me if people trade for oil in Euros. I don't think it bothers the US government either.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 10:44 pm
Yes, it does bother the US, if you'd bother to read the article posted on pg. 2, I believe.....here's an excerpt - stay with it, it gets into Iran as well:

It is now obvious the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam's long-gone WMD program and certainly less to do to do with fighting International terrorism than it has to do with gaining control over Iraq's hydrocarbon reserves and in doing so maintaining the U.S. dollar as the monopoly currency for the critical international oil market. Throughout 2004 statements by former administration insiders revealed that the Bush/Cheney administration entered into office with the intention of toppling Saddam Hussein. Indeed, the neoconservative strategy of installing a pro-U.S. government in Baghdad along with multiple U.S. military bases was partly designed to thwart further momentum within OPEC towards a "petroeuro." However, subsequent events show this strategy to be fundamentally flawed, with Iran moving forward towards a petroeuro system for international oil trades, while Russia discusses this option.

Candidly stated, ?'Operation Iraqi Freedom' was a war designed to install a pro-U.S. puppet in Iraq, establish multiple U.S military bases before the onset of Peak Oil, and to reconvert Iraq back to petrodollars while hoping to thwart further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. [1] In 2003 the global community witnessed a combination of petrodollar warfare and oil depletion warfare. The majority of the world's governments - especially the E.U., Russia and China - were not amused - and neither are the U.S. soldiers who are currently stationed in Iraq.

Indeed, the author's original pre-war hypothesis was validated shortly after the war in a Financial Times article dated June 5th, 2003, which confirmed Iraqi oil sales returning to the international markets were once again denominated in US dollars, not euros. Not surprisingly, this detail was never mentioned in the five US major media conglomerates who appear to censor this type of information, but confirmation of this vital fact provides insight into one of the crucial - yet overlooked - rationales for 2003 the Iraq war.

"The tender, for which bids are due by June 10, switches the transaction back to dollars -- the international currency of oil sales - despite the greenback's recent fall in value. Saddam Hussein in 2000 insisted Iraq's oil be sold for euros, a political move, but one that improved Iraq's recent earnings thanks to the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar." [2]

Unfortunately, it has become clear that yet another manufactured war, or some type of ill-advised covert operation is inevitable under President George W. Bush, should he win the 2004 Presidential Election. Numerous news reports over the past several months have revealed that the neoconservatives are quietly - but actively - planning for the second petrodollar war, this time against Iran.

---------so, there you have the valid reason why the US is at war with Iraq and planning next to try a similar fiasco against Iran. It's all about euro dollars vs american dollars. And the US wants the biggest share of the market, as usual. Maybe you'll take the time to read the article in its entirety. Maybe not. Whatever.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 01:11 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Yes, it does bother the US, if you'd bother to read the article


I realize the article makes this claim.

I don't consider the claim to be true just because they claim it. And I find the claim to be implausible at best.



pachelbel wrote:
---------so, there you have the valid reason why the US is at war with Iraq and planning next to try a similar fiasco against Iran.


No, all I have there is a highly questionable claim as to what the reason is.



pachelbel wrote:
Maybe you'll take the time to read the article in its entirety. Maybe not. Whatever.


I wouldn't have commented about the article if I hadn't read it in its entirety.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 03:02 pm
pachelbel wrote:
---------so, there you have the valid reason why the US is at war with Iraq and planning next to try a similar fiasco against Iran. It's all about euro dollars vs american dollars. And the US wants the biggest share of the market, as usual. Maybe you'll take the time to read the article in its entirety. Maybe not. Whatever.
Bush has already stated that he's content to let Iran have nuclear power under the Russian plan of them supplying the fuel and removing the spent fuel under the full supervision of the IAEA. If you consider the implications of that concession, you'll be forced to see the hollowness in the argument put forth in your article. Idea Relying on a single opinion is a recipe for erroneous conclusions.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 07:30 pm
Relying on anything Bush says/states is 'a recipe for erroneous conclusions'. Bush is a confirmed liar.

Rarely hear him say anything that remotely makes sense. Is he drunk, as has been surmised, or just stupid?

The facts speak for themselves. Do a google search. There's a lot on the net about the euro vs the dollar. What it's about, bud.

Believe or not, makes no difference to me!
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 10:36 pm
That's just silly. Unless Bush asks congress for war powers in Iran, he doesn't have them. He won't get them by stating that he's willing to go along with a plan to avoid military action. Said willingness totally discounts the level of importance you're putting on the Euro/Dollar equation. Get over it.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 11:11 pm
Again, quoted from globalresearch article;

In 2005-2006, The Tehran government has a developed a plan to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-denominated international oil-trading mechanism. This means that without some form of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project for U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on U.S. dollar supremacy in the international oil market

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."


NOW, which part don't you understand? Get over what? It is you, in America, that must get over the idea that America will control the oil market. Too many factors pointing against you. Read the article, pg 2 or 3.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 11:48 pm
pachelbel wrote:
NOW, which part don't you understand? Get over what? It is you, in America, that must get over the idea that America will control the oil market. Too many factors pointing against you. Read the article, pg 2 or 3.
What part don't I understand? Laughing I understand the article, in it's entirety, just fine... and even agree there's a dilemma over the Euro/Dollar Equation. However; if Bush isn't pressing for war in Iran, on the condition that Russians are going to fuel their reactor under IAEA supervision (which would, of course, have no bearing on the currency Iran chooses to use) your argument is mute. Quoting a faulty theory, over and over again will not add legitimacy to it.

Iran is in a position to have everything they want if they accept the offer. The only reason I could see them turning it down; is if they are not being honest about their intentions in the first place. Think it through. Your hatred of Bush, whether it be rational or not, has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not this diplomatic solution is to be utilized, so it supports your argument not at all. Unless Bush does a 180 and retracts his endorsement of the plan; your beloved article's conclusions are patently false. Get it? If you can't understand simple English, I will have to consider your opinions accordingly.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 12:14 am
Jeez, now I'm not so sure where the Milky Way resides.

On another thread pachelbel's use of "we" tied him to Canada, but in this one it ties him to the US.

An indentity crisis for poor pachy?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 12:33 am
Pachelbel's assertions are so ridiculous I have to wonder why I'm taking the time to comment upon them.

Ridiculous assertion #1: The government in Iran was democratically elected.

Only a moron or someone ideologically motivated would claim this to be true. By definition, if the State refuses to allow certain parties to run for office, ensuing elections are not democratic.

Ridiculous assertion #2: The US is not a superpower.

Not only is it a superpower, it is the only superpower. The only nation on earth that has any potential to rival the US is China, and superpower status for China is hardly a foregone conclusion.

The only way for China to gain a military advantage over the US is for the US to cease to concern itself with defense for two or three decades into the future.

China's problems with corruption, disparate levels of wealth, and environmental degradation are exponentially greater than that of the US.

Ridiculous assertion #3: Israel doesn't have a premier historical claim to the Holy Lands.

There are two parties struggling for dominion in the Holy Lands: Israelis and Palestinians.
Any reasonable consideration of history will conclude that to the extent historical claims have a meaning, the Israelis trump the Palestinians.

There are more ridiculous assertions, but these three will do to cast the proper light on pachelbel's claims.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:35 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Pachelbel's assertions are so ridiculous I have to wonder why I'm taking the time to comment upon them.

Ridiculous? You better start reading history.


Ridiculous assertion #1: The government in Iran was democratically elected.

They were democratically elected. Prove otherwise.


Only a moron or someone ideologically motivated would claim this to be true. By definition, if the State refuses to allow certain parties to run for office, ensuing elections are not democratic.

By your definiton, the same is true with the U.S. as defacto, Communist, Socialist, Nazi, much less Green or Independent parties (Natural Law) have a snowballs chance in hell to ever gain power under the regime of the A&B Teams called the Republican and Democratic Parties.


Ridiculous assertion #2: The US is not a superpower.

Not only is it a superpower, it is the only superpower. The only nation on earth that has any potential to rival the US is China, and superpower status for China is hardly a foregone conclusion.

The only way for China to gain a military advantage over the US is for the US to cease to concern itself with defense for two or three decades into the future.

China's problems with corruption, disparate levels of wealth, and environmental degradation are exponentially greater than that of the US.

We are not talking about military strength. We are talking economics. The US is in the same position as Rome or Spain or England before their fall. You cannot sustain a military on a shrinking tax base with an out of control trade deficit.

Ridiculous assertion #3: Israel doesn't have a premier historical claim to the Holy Lands.

There are two parties struggling for dominion in the Holy Lands: Israelis and Palestinians.
Any reasonable consideration of history will conclude that to the extent historical claims have a meaning, the Israelis trump the Palestinians.

If you mean that Israel's claim is based on God asking Moses to carry out genocide on the indigenous people of the land of milk and honey, as your rationale for their 'right' to the Holy Land, then I suppose you agree that Hitler was correct in his genocide to make Lebensraum for Germany.

The Arabs, over 700,000, were in Israel before the Jews, until the Balfour Declaration and the Brits stabbed them in the back and gave it to the Jews. Look it up. It's really easy on a google search.

There are more ridiculous assertions, but these three will do to cast the proper light on pachelbel's claims.


Oh really? Or is it that you could not find answers to properly debate, finn?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 10:41 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Pachelbel's assertions are so ridiculous I have to wonder why I'm taking the time to comment upon them.

Ridiculous? You better start reading history.[/b]

And then I might find them less ridiculous how?

[/b][/color]
Ridiculous assertion #1: The government in Iran was democratically elected.

They were democratically elected. Prove otherwise.

Opposition parties were not permitted to contest. Do you really need more proof or do you argue against this assertion?


Only a moron or someone ideologically motivated would claim this to be true. By definition, if the State refuses to allow certain parties to run for office, ensuing elections are not democratic.

By your definiton, the same is true with the U.S. as defacto, Communist, Socialist, Nazi, much less Green or Independent parties (Natural Law) have a snowballs chance in hell to ever gain power under the regime of the A&B Teams called the Republican and Democratic Parties.

Hardly.The Party in Favor of Ceding Soverignty to the Universal Overlords has a snow balls chance in hell of winning but it can run in America. There is a huge difference (which I am frankly surprised you refuse to acknowledge) between parties having little chance to win an election and parties having no chance because the powers that be refuse them entry to the process.


Ridiculous assertion #2: The US is not a superpower.

Not only is it a superpower, it is the only superpower. The only nation on earth that has any potential to rival the US is China, and superpower status for China is hardly a foregone conclusion.

The only way for China to gain a military advantage over the US is for the US to cease to concern itself with defense for two or three decades into the future.

China's problems with corruption, disparate levels of wealth, and environmental degradation are exponentially greater than that of the US.

We are not talking about military strength. We are talking economics. The US is in the same position as Rome or Spain or England before their fall. You cannot sustain a military on a shrinking tax base with an out of control trade deficit.

When we talk about international superpowers, only an idiot is not talking about military power. As far as economic power goes, it is a long way between the American fall and the Chinese rise. You were probably someone who argued that Japan was eating America's economic lunch in the early 90's.

China has an enormous potentiallity for two reasons, one readily recognized, the other less politically correct:

1) Sheer size of population
2) The money making roots of the Chinese psyche.


It is absurd to argue that China will march through all of the problems of 20th century powers, like a hot knife through butter, to dominance in the 21st century.

China has enormous challanges (well beyond those of the US) when it comes to ecological degradation, enormous gaps between rich and poor, and the corruption of the power elite.



Ridiculous assertion #3: Israel doesn't have a premier historical claim to the Holy Lands.

There are two parties struggling for dominion in the Holy Lands: Israelis and Palestinians.
Any reasonable consideration of history will conclude that to the extent historical claims have a meaning, the Israelis trump the Palestinians.

If you mean that Israel's claim is based on God asking Moses to carry out genocide on the indigenous people of the land of milk and honey, as your rationale for their 'right' to the Holy Land, then I suppose you agree that Hitler was correct in his genocide to make Lebensraum for Germany.

No, I mean those peoples with whom modern day Israelis feel they can draw a straight historical line, owned Palestine well before the Arabic also-rans came along.

The Temple Mount maybe the 3rd most holy site in Islam, but Jeruselem and the site of the Temple of Solomon is the the most holy site in Judaeism. The reason is that Palestine is the land of Jewish origin; it is not the land of Islamic origin.



The Arabs, over 700,000, were in Israel before the Jews, until the Balfour Declaration and the Brits stabbed them in the back and gave it to the Jews. Look it up. It's really easy on a google search.

There are more ridiculous assertions, but these three will do to cast the proper light on pachelbel's claims.


Oh really? Or is it that you could not find answers to properly debate, finn?


Bring it on pachy!
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 03/12/2026 at 12:39:11