The Middle of the Road or Not?

Lash has always been brilliant. Even when I hate her for it!

I'll drink to that!

That caught me by surprise. I still have chillbumps. Thank you, sweetie.

Cheers to lilk, and anyone else enjoying a tall cold one tonight!

Yep, it seems like you've come out on the other side of something, and that's nice to see.

And yes, good job here.

:wink:

I know a lot of people who I genuinely care about, who feel as Momma does. I love them, and it hurts me for them that they've been sold hatred. I don't think they recognise it for what it is.

Many people, who have her stance don't think of it as hatred. Like many good Southern people didn't think slavery was really all that bad. After all, we love our slaves and they are fed well....

I have to share something with you.

If you can ever see a good rendition (video) of Ann Hamilon's myein, please do. It had a really big effect on me--although I was an advocate for equal rights before I saw it. It is a goal of mine to see it in person.

It's installation art. You begin by approaching a Jeffersonian, Greek classical building, and the mood is unmistakably American government. You enter and the mood continues--stately, the magic and reverence of American government (obviously MY interpretation...) Then suddenly, you enter a completely different atmosphere. The ambience is ethereal--tufts of a red powder, so fine it seems liquid, cascade down, from the tops of the walls. As the powder slides down, it comes into contact with raised braille lettering, bringing to life like some ghostly apparition, a silent, persistent murmur of North American natives and enslaved blacks as retold by Charles Reznikoff. The words are brutal and true. And silent.

They speak silently around the room for a moment, and the next tuft of blood red powder knocks the lettering clear--the words disappear--the voices are silent again.

What is so touching is the quiet, urgent whisper of a woman's voice... She's reading from the portion of Lincoln's Gettysburg address, that ponders how a country, built on a standard it hasn't yet reached, can survive.

It's the most powerful piece of art I've ever experienced.

The spectre of the building is precious and beloved to me--but those voices, and what they represent re the establishment of this country... Those voices are from our gay brothers and sisters now. I just feel we can't turn our backs on anyone that doesn't have the full compliment of rights promised in our Constitution.

________

Thank, soz.

Lash - and now I have goose bumps!

Lash,

You know that I think the world of you. You know that I respect you and your right to what you believe.

This is just an issue that we disagree on. I will admit that I can see how you may categorize my stand on this as having feelings of hate. I can understand it and I can accept that is how you feel.

I explained to you in a PM my problem with debating this issue with you. That will always be my stand no matter what the issue being discussed.

I want you to know that I do not hate anyone. Hate is a wasted emotion. I just wanted you to know that I, too, think you are pretty brilliant.

OK, just help everyone secure their inalienable rights.
________________________________________________

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Help us live up to our birthright.

Are you assuming that homosexuals are born that way?

I know homosexuals who would disagree with that very strongly.

I know some who would swear by it.

I do too. So who is right?

I know adulterers who say that they were just born with an overactive sex drive and they can't help it.

I've been told by some A2Kers that they think pedophiles are born that way and cannot help it.

What do you think about it?

Well, I think it's different for each person. Some choose and some don't. I think fewer choose. (Jail guys, and I really don't think we could even call them gay....just flexible.)

<heh>


Don't you know any gay people, who have agonized with you, or told you how miserable they've been trying to come to terms with their sexuality?

Yes I do.

And I know alcoholics who tell me the same thing about their drink.

And adulterers the same thing about their cheating.

And I have worked with salesmen who lie to get a sale but then tell me how conflicted they are about it.

And so on.

Just because someone feels emotionally attached to a behavior doesn't mean a thing.

We are in control of our emotions, or our emotions control us.

If I see a woman that I want badly should I just tell my wife, 'well I guess it's genetic. I gotta cheat. Get used to it. Can't fight biology.'

C'mon Lash. It's not rational.

Have you ever seen a child who was born with male and female genitals? With female genitals, but male traits and features?

It's more than rational, it's science.

Are you trying to tell me that this is in any way representative of the vast majority of homosexuals? It's not and you know it.

Exercize your mind just a dab, if you can crack it open just a tad.

If they can be born with these conditions:

and I have seen one child, who was born with both male and female genitals, and more than a few born with dominant male traits, but feminine genitals--and plenty of men, who walk, talk, have mannerisms the most accomplished actor couldn't fake. Since more than a few of them were teased mercilessly and some, brutally:

I don't know why any rational person would insist that there is no reason other than some evil inherent desire to be reviled by society and maybe killed.

You sound like someone who despises gay people, and wants to blame them for it, to justify the way up feel.

I worked closely with several people, who needed community services--and also interacted with a troupe of local actors--and I'm not guessing.

My point was supposed to come back to the fact that if those more drastic hormonal mismatches with genitals occurred, surely less drastic mismatches occur, that result in homosexuality.

More accurately, we are in control of how we act upon our emotions. We cannot control our emotions themselves.