My, our, relationship problems

Married__nj--

What I think isn't important. What do you want? What does your wife want?

From your summary she's fed up with you not following through on plans and implied promises. You've declared (once again?) that you will change.

Why didn't joint counseling work?

Marrie_nj,

I think Noddy's question is a very good one. Why didn't joint counseling work? Was it the counselor you had problems with or you and your wife couldn't work it out?

In any relationship there are problems. Rarely, are they just one person's fault (responsibility, etc.) I am sure there are things that you have issue with also?

I sincerely hope that you both can work this situation out the way you want it to work. Marriage is hard work. I don't care what anyone says. It is work. But, if I am willing to put forth the work and do the things I need to do, then it's worth it to me.

You will get some great advice from some other posters that I am sure will show up. They will be honest and to the point answers. They are also very compassionate people who are willing to help.

What do I want? I want us to be together, happy, until death do us part. I never envisioned this happening to us.

What does she want? She would have liked me to be a better husband years ago and do what she wanted and requested. I failed her and am very sad about this. Right now, I think she would rather want to separate. We don't want the kids harmed emotionally. I think there may be something in her that she may want to have things work out.

We were doing OK with the first counselor. He and I had 1 session together, the next and last he had a hypothetical question for her which she did not take very well, so that was the end of that.

I don't have that many issues really, especially not like hers.

She didn't take a hypothetical question well and that was the end of that? After just one visit? Oh my. That doesn't sound as if she is too willing. Just my opinin, of course.

You cannot do a single thing about anything that has transpired before now. Neither can she. All that can be done is to make a decision what you want to do and make a plan to make things better and go from there. But, that has to be something you are both willing to do.

I wish you both well and success in your marriage.

We had been through about 5 sessions with him. The sixth is when she did not take the hypothetical well. Some of the sessions she came out ok, some she did not. I think not because we were just bringing up the problems again and she did not like reliving them.

All I can do now is disaster recovery with the things that she wants to do. And going forward try to be more assertive in what she asks and wants to do. As long as she would like to continue trying.

We have been married 18 years and have 2 wonderful kids. People always say we look great together. I know I am not perfect, nobody is. Everyone has faults. I always thought we were doing better than our close group of friends. We both had something to say about our friends and their marriages. But we kept this to ourselves. I don't really have a good bud to hang and talk with. My wife is my best friend. The counselor and my wife is the only people I spoke to about this. And now here. I know that if talk to one of the other husbands, they will talk to their wife and then our problems will be heard by all. Never mind about the friends.

Married_nj,

One thing I have noticed in your posts is you don't seem to have any real issues with your wife. I know you must have some. I'm not lessening the importance of what you are saying, understand. But, I have found myself in the situation sometimes that in trying to save a relationship I will forget that I am part of that relationship and will only concentrate on what the other person wants. That caused me and them problems because I eventually resented that I did it.

Eighteen years is a long time. This has to be so hard on you. I will pray for you that things will work for you!

Is is difficult on me. A few months ago I was telling her I was still in love with her. But she was not with me. Since Christmas, with the arguments\discussions we have had, I am beginning to see and feel that she no longer wants to be with me. I don't understand how someone can fall out of love which is my problem with this. Even if I persuaded her to stay and work on it, her heart will not be there and I would feel the frustration. After all, she is my best friend. How do I try to be close to her with her not wanting me near. Therefore, it may be best that we part our ways.

I do have some issues about her, but they would be minimal as far as I am concerned. We did speak about this. My issues with her would not have anything to do with this much of a problem between us.

Married_NJ,

You don't understand how someone can fall out of love? It happens all the time. I fall in and out of love with my husband all the time. It is virtually impossible to maintain that "honeymoon" in love we once had. But we will always love each other. But, that's ok. That's life.

Does she not want to even try? If she doesn't want to try then I would say don't. You both have to at least be willing to try. You would just end up being resentful if you were the one doing all the work to make the relationship work. I am not an advocate of divorce, mind you. But, perhaps a separation might be in order? Maybe she just needs some space of her own for awhile?

Hey.

Have you considered going to see someone by yourself - regardless of what you wife chooses?

You seem very focused on your wife. Understandable.

It's easy for me to say "Don't worry about what other people think." I know it is harder to do when it is your actual life.

You may really benefit from having someone to talk to though, who you truly feel is not judging you or your situation, in order to flesh this all out.

I wish you best. Take care of yourself.

Falling out of love...not fully. Unless the couple is fighting or someone is abusive either physically or mentally. I guess this can be mental abuse??
A separation is possible. being that it would be hard to work on it if I was into it and she was not.

Flushd... My wife went for 5 sessions with a female counselor and I have gone twice so far with the same counselor. My wife likes her and so do I.

Last night I was over our neighbors house. There are 4 couples who are close and we get together over one couples house usually ever Friday night, hence it's called, Friday night! Everyone drinks, a few pretty heavily. I am not a heavy drinker, although last night I was bad, unusual for me. The 3 wives were there, not mine and one husband. They were consoling me very nicely. My wife was there Friday night after our big fight. It seems from what these people know about our problem, most of it is from my wife, that they think this should not be happening. The guy and 1 wife both think my wife should not be this hard on the situation. They did express their feelings to my wife about this as well. I opened up alittle to these people and I felt OK in doing so. The counselor also sounds like she believes it should not being going this far. She explained her situation to me which sounds very similar to our problems.

BUT, this is a decision my wife and I need to make. To me, if my wife is willing, I would forget everything in the past and begin anew. She cannot due this. She cannot let go of these feelings that it will not work to her satisfaction.

married__nj wrote:



You've spent 18 years "being assertive" about what you want to do at the expense of what your wife has wanted. Now she doesn't want to try any more.

Momma Angel, I suspect that Mrs. Married__nj's fault is that she's making waves and wanting change.

I don't particularly care what the neighbors say. If I were your wife and once again you were muttering "one more chance", I'd be furious.

Don't talk, act. What does she want done around the house? If you want to save your marriage, take her request at face value and DO IT.

Noddy,

I sure cannot disagree with that. Maybe Mrs. Married has just gotten to the put up or shut up point?

See Married? I told you that there would be posters giving you excellent advice. Noddy is definitely one of them!

Having never been married myself, I wouldn't put to much stock in my opinions on an 18 year marriage. But I will share my thoughts in hopes it may help...

What I'm hearing after reading what's been written so far is:

You have become complacent in your marriage and comfortable letting things ride in whatever direction providing there is no real effort required from you. Your wife is bored and more than a little discouraged by your complacency. By and large, in the past, she too has been reasonably satisfied with just co-existing though she has wished for a long time that you would take a more pro-active roll in building towards something more. Each time her disappointment has built into frustration; you've discussed it, admitted your shortcomings (from her perspective) and agreed to work harder at doing your part in achieving your mutual happiness. But, each time, whether you meant to or not, in retrospect (again from her perspective) you really did little more than provide lip service instead of following through with your promises.

Now I don't see anything inherently wrong with becoming complacent over such a long period of marriage... indeed, that's a formula for success in more than a few relationships I've observed over the long hall. However, it seems your wife doesn't share this mindset and feels that she's waited years for changes that just never came. I wouldn't expect her to take your word for it that "this time, it's going to be different."

Today you seem willing to do whatever it will take to save your marriage and that is admirable. Your candor in self-critique is indicative of an intelligent kind hearted genuinely decent person. I would encourage you to ask yourself honestly if you are willing to fine-tune your persona for the long hall or if (presuming you succeed in saving your marriage) you will simply slip back into the complacency you've enjoyed for years. Compromise in the short-term is only a band-aid on the scale of till death do us part. Ask yourself if it's really worth it to make the adjustments and if you are truly capable of doing so over the long hall. Much like dieting; short term adjustments will only lead to further disappointment as opposed to permanent changes that alter your life forever. Absent your current fear of losing your wife; is your marriage worth the long-term commitment to change that's required to recreate the bond between you?

If so, you need to act. Unrealized commitments in the past will likely prevent your wife from taking your heartfelt words at face value, and rightly so. While past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results; the common sense expectation is that it will be. You shouldn't hold that against her, rather you should simply recognize it as the truth. There is no fault there.

Now there is a very real paradox between the fact that proof is in the doing while time is of the essence. You cannot reasonably demonstrate your longterm commitment in the short term. That is a tough one. A bouquet of flowers daily is a shallow, even if genuine, attempt at demonstrating this commitment. Surprise her. Correct some other aspect of your life in a positive way while explaining that you really are a changed man (if indeed you decide you can and/or should and want to make a change.)
Example: if you don't currently do so; you could take up jogging at the crack of dawn to prove to your wife as well as yourself that you are proactively working toward effecting change for the better. A healthier more attractive you will certainly not do any harm and may very well demonstrate your commitment. If that's not a real change for you; think of something you could do daily that will surprise her and demonstrate that you are not just providing lip service, again. Cleaning, working out, learn a language that you've both considered mastering, whatever). Anything that is demonstrably a serious change for the better. Meanwhile, be sure and remodel that bathroom in the ways you've discussed.

Also, you've made no reference whatsoever to any jealousy from either of you. Is this because it doesn't exist? Or is there perhaps apathy between you because you've allowed your love life to atrophy? If I've learned anything about women in my 37 years on the planet; they like to feel sexy. I believe it is a rare woman who strays when she is completely satisfied in her love life. I'm not suggesting that's the pinnacle of importance, but don't underestimate it either. Depending on your current habits, this is another avenue that could demonstrate your loving commitment. You clearly love her a great deal; do you show it as often as you should?

Not knowing you or your wife, let alone the intimate details of your relationship I couldn't possibly advise you as to what you should or shouldn't do. I've tried to lay out some generic advise in hopes it may help you to clarify for yourself what you want, need and what you are willing to do, if indeed anything. My favorite definition for insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Only you can decide what results you are looking for and assess the relative pro's and con's of attempting to get from here to there.

I do wish you the very best of luck in reaching whatever conclusions are right for you. During all of your soul searching, never forget that you have to be happy, yourself, if you want to stand any chance of bringing happiness to someone else.

I've no doubt rambled long enough. Good luck to you and welcome to A2K.

OCCOM BILL sounds like he has been listening to our discussions and is right on the mark with what he has said. All I can say is that I have been attempting to persuade her to change her mind and she admits that what
I say is tempting to her. We have had good and bad discussions. She has been spending that last 2 weekends away from us. Last week we spoke on the phone and she asked things in such a way that she would agree to reconcile, but that was short lived. We discussed things and agreed to things that were acceptable to her. We were at the counselor together Tuesday night and I read a list of things that I was willing to work very hard at and explained my feelings about our situation. The counselor said to her that there must be something that is keeping her in discussion about continuing our lives together. I just cannot get my words down coherently here tonight and I just don't know what to make of things.

I am heartbroken with what she is doing. I am harboring hate for her for what she is doing, yet, in a millisecond if she said lets try to work things out, that hate would no longer exist. I don't know what to do or what to feel.

Her 40th birthday is Sunday. She said under the circumstances she does not expect anything from me. She is going out Saturday night with her girlfriends and Sunday we go to her moms house for a get together since my son's birthday is also next week. I bought her a nice jewelry box for Christmas, the 2nd one I bought her. I am a woodworker and just finished a nice shelf for the 2 jewlery boxes that mounts on the wall. We did not have anyplace in our bedroom to put them, that is why I built it. Well, I came home from work today and saw that she had taken the boxes to her office which is her own business.

I'm on my way out to meet friends right now, and I've had more than enough to drink with my partner already (to speak with much intelligence), but I feel compelled to remind you to be demonstrably different in your future dealings... if indeed, you deem it worth it. The status quo hasn't cut it, so don't think it will in the future. Long story short: If you care; prove it.

Good luck!

I've been trying to prove it only there is much resistance on her part. Just bought her diamond earings for her birthday. Hope she does not get mad at me. She does not want me doing nice things or anything for her at all. She commented that even though she knows how much she is hurting me, she realizes for the most part I am being very nice to her. As much as she may want to split, I want to stay together and willing to do my best.

There is a communication gap here, for sure. I am not so sure our poster is the major part of the problem. Steady love is nothing to sniff at, from my view.

On the other hand, maybe he is an always promiser who doesn't follow through. Might I dare question the requests for follow through themselves?

We don't know enough.


However things go, try to take care of yourself, and also of her. If you have thoughts against her, talk of them to the counselor, be particular about details you remember - as they form and reform actions and reactions.

Sometimes no one is at fault, fault is just a crevass in the earth.

married_nj,
Do you think she's gonna leave?

She wants to be home to see the kids off to school and when they get home. They are 15 and 10. She is cooking for us and we are pleasant towards each other. She just acquired a new place for her business which has a room she came sleep at if she wants and a kitchen. I am sure she will be staying there at some point. She does car about me but she just wants her freedom. Freedom to do what she wants without someone's interaction or criticism.

At this point there is no communication gap. Everything is out in the open. I know what I need to do, it's whether she wants to accept it.

I think the counselor believes that we are good together and that the relationship is worth trying to save. Again, it's whether she wants to.

I hope she does.