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Let's talk about Paul...

 
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 11:40 pm
There is no Greek particle "a" in John 1:1 to denote "a God".
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 07:52 pm
real life wrote:
There is no Greek particle "a" in John 1:1 to denote "a God".
No, there is a definite article before God, 'the' God.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 08:04 pm
revel wrote:
Hephzibah

I asked someone last night and while he didn't have much time, he did answer the question to at least give me a sense of direction.

He said that when Jesus was born, he was born a little lower than the angels, so while he was on earth as man, the first statement where Jesus said God is greater than he is; is true. Also the second statement where Paul said that it was not robbery for Jesus to equal with God is also true because he is also the Son of God and after his death he was glorified and sits on the right hand side of God.

I don't explain it well and it would take a while to get all the relevant verses, but the explanation makes sense to me.

Another thing which has always confused me even more is the part in the Old testament where God said he was the only God and there is no other beside him. I have always wondered, how then can Jesus have existed before he was born the Son of man, yet in gospel of John, it says he was there when the world began. It is all so confusing to me.

Quote:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.


Quote:
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


I never did buy that theory of God actually literally being three people at once, because why would Jesus pray to himself or call himself father or sit on the right hand side of himself? It don't make any sense.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 09:14 pm
Jesus had a prehuman existence as the firstborn of creation. He was given the power to do all things. You can read about this in Proverbs chapter 8. Focus particularly on vs. 22.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 09:48 pm
neologist wrote:
real life wrote:
There is no Greek particle "a" in John 1:1 to denote "a God".
No, there is a definite article before God, 'the' God.


Yes , it is with the first occurrence of 'God' in the verse i.e. 'the Word was with (the) God.' ( ο λογοσ ην προσ τον θεον )

However, the lack of a definite article does not denote 'a god' or some other god besides God.

See verse 6 of the same chapter which has no definite article 'There was a man sent from God' ( εγενετο ανθρωποσ απεσταλμενοσ παρα θεου )

Also verse 12 'to them he gave power to become sons of God' ( αυτοισ εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι ) No definite article associated with 'God' in this verse either.

The examples of this are numerous. The lack of a definite article is no warrant for translating 'a god' in verse 1.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 10:00 pm
neologist wrote:
Jesus had a prehuman existence as the firstborn of creation. He was given the power to do all things. You can read about this in Proverbs chapter 8. Focus particularly on vs. 22.


Since the speaker (Wisdom ) is said to be observing the Creator (Jehovah) doing the work of Creation, it is clear that Wisdom is not the Creator Himself:

Prov 8:27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day,

However, the New Testament clearly identifies Jesus Christ the Creator, not as an observer of someone else doing the work of Creation, hence He Himself was not an observer at the beginning.

John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Hebrews 1: 10 referring to Christ says:

And: "You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out."
0 Replies
 
 

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