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Prayer=weakness

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2006 09:34 pm
Please keep in touch I'm the other one!
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2006 10:11 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Doktor S Wrote:

Quote:

Hi I'm the other one. You seem to be doing ok?

I'm not surprised that Doktor S knows the Bible. I am surprised at a statement he made though.

I assure you I know what I am talking about with regards to 'the bible'
I'm not one of those 'atheists' that irrationally hates everything christian. I read from the bible every day. In fact, every time I take a crap.
Something synchronous and circular about reading it in that location that I enjoy.
I know the bible pretty well. My favorite has to be pauls letter to philemon, and the keen way he describes believers in said epistle.
You know what I'm talking about?


I am rather shocked to hear that bolded statement, Dok. I am surprised that you linked atheist and irrational together in any way. Can you explain that a bit further? I, of course. have seen irrational in conjunction with faith, but I am not sure you mean this the same way. I really would appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit further. Thanx.

People in general are irrational. That I see religion as a champion of irrationality does not mean I assert the two are mutually exclusive.
There are plenty of atheists that turn atheism into their dogma, and take every atheist argument as axiomatic truth. I like to see myself on the third side of the 'atheist vs theist' debate.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2006 10:17 pm
That's interesting. The third side? Can you tell me what that is to you? Is it in the middle?
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2006 10:22 pm
I try to see the third side of every issue.
Not necessarily in the middle, but from a different point of view.
For instance. Atheists say there is no god/there is no reason to believe in god.
Theists say there is a god and he is out there.

I see god as a psychological construct based in evolutionary biology, serving a very specific function.
I find it highly likely that there is a 'god part of the brain'
The third side...
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2006 10:28 pm
Thanx Doktor S. I appreciate you explaining that to me.
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John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 01:24 pm
Doktor S wrote:
What I am saying is that prayer is not only counterproductive, it is also psychologically unhealthy because it is self deceptive.


Lord, make us instruments
of your peace.
Where there is hatred
let us sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is discord, union;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light;
Where there is sadness, joy.

Grant that we may not
so much seek
To be consoled as to console;
To be understood
as to understand;
To be loved as to love.

For it is in giving
that we receive;
It is in pardoning
that we are pardoned;
And it is in dying that we are
born to eternal life.

Amen


Prayer is not about asking for material things. For me it is about asking God to help me do his will.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 01:26 pm
John Creasy,

Thank you so much for posting that. One of the greatest prayers there is IMO.
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John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 02:08 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
John Creasy,

Thank you so much for posting that. One of the greatest prayers there is IMO.


Very Happy
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 04:56 pm
John Creasy,

If "his will" means "looking after each other", then Dawkins points out that chimpanzees do this quite well without the need for prayer.
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John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 08:29 pm
fresco wrote:
John Creasy,

If "his will" means "looking after each other", then Dawkins points out that chimpanzees do this quite well without the need for prayer.


Yeah but I'm sure chimps don't get on each other's nerves as much as humans do. Very Happy

Besides, you miss the point. It's not about "needing" prayer, but if it gives someone peace of mind in the midst of this chaotic world, who are you to question it??
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 12:11 am
Drug addicts will tell you that drugs bring them peace of mind as well.
This isn't a good reason to turn ones back on the problem of drug addiction.
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John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:01 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Drug addicts will tell you that drugs bring them peace of mind as well.
This isn't a good reason to turn ones back on the problem of drug addiction.


Drugs give a false, unhealthy sense of well-being that can kill you.

Prayer is safe, natural and sure as hell won't kill you.
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:03 pm
John Creasy wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Drug addicts will tell you that drugs bring them peace of mind as well.
This isn't a good reason to turn ones back on the problem of drug addiction.


Drugs give a false, unhealthy sense of well-being that can kill you.

Prayer is safe, natural and sure as hell won't kill you.


Tell that to the numerous children who's families refused clinical treatment in favor of a more spiritual antidote.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:04 pm
What was the outcome of those families?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:08 pm
Intrepid wrote:
What was the outcome of those families?


Torn apart by wild buffalo. Quite tragic, really.
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John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:47 pm
Questioner wrote:
John Creasy wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Drug addicts will tell you that drugs bring them peace of mind as well.
This isn't a good reason to turn ones back on the problem of drug addiction.


Drugs give a false, unhealthy sense of well-being that can kill you.

Prayer is safe, natural and sure as hell won't kill you.


Tell that to the numerous children who's families refused clinical treatment in favor of a more spiritual antidote.


completely different story.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:50 pm
John Creasy wrote:


completely different story.


Not at all. The comparison to drugs was made. Prayer can become a crutch, same as any drug. And in instances it has, in fact, resulted in death.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:53 pm
I beg to differ. Drug addiction is absolutely nothing like prayer or religious beliefs. Nothing at all. I can tell you that from experience.
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:56 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I beg to differ. Drug addiction is absolutely nothing like prayer or religious beliefs. Nothing at all. I can tell you that from experience.


Beg all you want MA, despite what you may believe, you're not the only one with expereince with addiction. The need to pray to a god that you believe will solve your ills or those of your family can be just as furtive as the pull of cocaine. There are those out there that are quite simply put, addicted to it.
0 Replies
 
John Creasy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2006 09:56 pm
Questioner wrote:
John Creasy wrote:


completely different story.


Not at all. The comparison to drugs was made. Prayer can become a crutch, same as any drug. And in instances it has, in fact, resulted in death.


Nonsense, prayer in and of itself has never harmed anyone. If someone refuses medical attention, that is due to ignorance, not prayer.

You obviously have the wrong assumption, that anyone who prays must just sit around and wait for things to happen.This is a common misconception by people with no true knowledge of spirituality.
0 Replies
 
 

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