Prayer=weakness

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The Satanic Bible wrote:

The Satanist realizes that man, and the action and reaction of the universe, is responsible for
everything, and doesn't mislead himself into thinking that someone cares. No longer will we
sit back and accept "fate" without doing anything about it, just because it says so in Chapter
such and such, Psalm so and so - and that's that! The Satanist knows that praying does
absolutely no good - in fact, it actually lessens the chance of success, for the devoutly
religious too often sit back complacently and pray for a situation which, if they were to do
something about it on their own, could be accomplished much quicker!
The Satanist shuns terms such as "hope" and "prayer" as they are indicative of apprehension.
If we hope and pray for something to come about, we will not act in a positive way which will
make it happen. The Satanist, realizing that anything he gets is of his own doing, takes
command of the situation instead of praying to God for it to happen. Positive thinking and
positive action add up to results.

These, the words of Anton LaVey, pretty much sum up my thoughts on this topic.
Thoughts?

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I often wonder if one with holes in the feet could still walk on water?

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Of course,...

...with proper floatation devices, that is.

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I don't know if I believe that prayer = weakness, but so what if it did?

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So what if anything adds up to anything...
What are you trying to say?

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What are you trying to say? What if prayer = weakness. Then what. People shouldn't pray because it means they're weak? Or people who don't pray are strong? What?

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What I am saying is that prayer is not only counterproductive, it is also psychologically unhealthy because it is self deceptive.

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I suppose if you have a very narrow definition of prayer, that might be true.

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Heh, that's the second time I've heard that tonight. Amusing how you lend the concept of talking to imaginary friends such aggrandizement.

Quote:

prayer1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prâr)
n.

1.
1. A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. An act of communion with God, a god, or another object of worship, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving: One evening a week, the family would join together in prayer.
3. A specially worded form used to address God, a god, or another object of worship.
4. prayers A religious observance in which praying predominates: morning prayers.
5.
1. A fervent request: Her prayer for rain was granted at last.
2. The thing requested: His safe arrival was their only prayer.
6. The slightest chance or hope: In a storm the mountain climbers won't have a prayer.
7. Law.
1. The request of a complainant, as stated in a complaint or in equity, that the court grant the aid or relief solicited.
2. The section of the complaint or bill that contains this request.

I think I am working within the defined parameters of the definition of the word.

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Nothing in that definition leads me to think it is counterproductive. I think in your mind when you hear the word prayer you think of blind worshippers on their knees asking for something from an allpowerful kinglike deity who controls everything. That isn't what I think of when I hear that word (unless it comes out of the mouths of certain people) though my definition certainly falls within the definition you post.

Quote:

2. An act of communion with God

If you believe that God lives within yourself, and you seek within yourself to find God and to find answers, that is prayer. It is also, from my experience, very effective and does not imply complacency or helplessness and especially not weakness.

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Quote:

If you believe that God lives within yourself, and you seek within yourself to find God and to find answers, that is prayer. It is also, from my experience, very effective and does not imply complacency or helplessness and especially not weakness.

Well, being an authotheist, I totally agree. I of course am talking exclusively in terms of a theistic god. I probably should have specified.

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Nah, I probably could have figured that out based on other discussion and the piece you posted. I was being a tad obstinate.

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When I pray and I receive what I have asked for, often something completely beyond my influence or control, I don't think I can describe that as counterproductive. Not at all.

Psychologically harmful? Hardly. It's actually quite the opposite.

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Actually, I find prayer to be a lot of things; calming, comforting, and extremely uplifting. When my prayers are answered by God they are always more than I ever expected.

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Of course your little satanic bible would say this dok....anything to keep from turning to God. But of course, you would never see it.

My prayers are answered most of the time and I love it!!!

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I also must add....that bible looks pretty slopped together.

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Well, yeah; but the proper attitude toward prayer is that it must be accompanied by action.

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Doktor S wrote:

What I am saying is that prayer is not only counterproductive, it is also psychologically unhealthy because it is self deceptive.

Why is it unhealthy, counterproductive, and self deceptive? What are the reasons to believe this?

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This speculates that those who pray rely only on prayer and do nothing themselves. That is a ridiculous assumption. Like Freeduck said... what are you trying to say and why?

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real life wrote:

When I pray and I receive what I have asked for, often something completely beyond my influence or control, I don't think I can describe that as counterproductive. Not at all.

Psychologically harmful? Hardly. It's actually quite the opposite.

So you claim. But it is undesirable to believe in a magical, imaginary protector because you can't distinguish between what you wish to be true and what the evidence suggests.

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Prayer=weakness

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