bush Insists We Must Have Patriot Act

Re: bush Insists We Must Have Patriot Act

blueveinedthrobber wrote:

Why the big push? Obviously this ass_hole will just do what he wants whether it's legal or not........he's proven that with the wiretaps.....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/03/bush.patriot.ap/index.html

Which part of the Patriot Act specifically is illegal?

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all of it if it doesn't get redone.

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Re: bush Insists We Must Have Patriot Act

blueveinedthrobber wrote:

Why the big push? Obviously this ass_hole will just do what he wants whether it's legal or not........he's proven that with the wiretaps.....

Funnily enough, I thought the same thing when I saw the title of this thread. At this point, law and precedent are mere formalities to this crew. Isn't "quaint" the word that the current A.G. used to describe the Geneva Conventions?

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Quote:

"When it came time to renew the act, for partisan reasons, in my mind, people have not stepped up and have agreed that it's still necessary to protect the country," said the president, sitting at a table in the Roosevelt Room with federal officials and U.S. attorneys from around the country.

What kind of sentence structure is that? What is he even saying?

Was it, in his mind, time to renew the patriot act for partisan reasons?

Was it time to renew the act, but people didn't step-up, but rather, for partisan reasons, agreed it's still necessary to protect the country? (WTF?)

If people didn't step-up, how did they agree?

Good Lord, he's an idiot.

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I think I can guess what he meant to say. But one could take those various phrases, cut them up, and throw them in the air -- and then come up with four or five different interpretations. Because they make no sense at all in the original order...

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except on planet Zog where gwb is from....

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Red Auerbach gave the commencement speech at my college graduation. Nobody understood a word he said, but he was still great.

Just so ya' know bear, I'm not a big backer of the Patriot Act, but if you must hide something, put it in your sock. They look your shoes over pretty good at the airport these days. Wink

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

all of it if it doesn't get redone.

Then it should be very easy for you to cite one provision of it that is illegal. Or are you just blowing hot air about a topic you know nothing about?

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Brandon9000 wrote:

blueveinedthrobber wrote:
all of it if it doesn't get redone.

Then it should be very easy for you to cite one provision of it that is illegal. Or are you just blowing hot air about a topic you know nothing about?

I'm not that clued up on the Patriot Act, but if there was....say.... a section, allowing prisoners to be held on American soil without charge or trial, and causing them to undergo interrogation without legal representation, and for such confinement to be of an indeterminate duration, I would say that THAT would be illegal.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

blueveinedthrobber wrote:
all of it if it doesn't get redone.

Then it should be very easy for you to cite one provision of it that is illegal. Or are you just blowing hot air about a topic you know nothing about?

not playing with you Brandon...pick a fight elsewhere....

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
all of it if it doesn't get redone.

Then it should be very easy for you to cite one provision of it that is illegal. Or are you just blowing hot air about a topic you know nothing about?

I'm not that clued up on the Patriot Act, but if there was....say.... a section, allowing prisoners to be held on American soil without charge or trial, and causing them to undergo interrogation without legal representation, and for such confinement to be of an indeterminate duration, I would say that THAT would be illegal.

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses. But since you have not shown that the act contains such a provision, there is nothing to discuss.

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
all of it if it doesn't get redone.

Then it should be very easy for you to cite one provision of it that is illegal. Or are you just blowing hot air about a topic you know nothing about?

not playing with you Brandon...pick a fight elsewhere....

What a truly bizarre distortion to refer to wanting to debate a political opinion posted on a debating board, "picking a fight."

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

Which actual provision of the Act did you take exception to?

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Though not directed towards me, I feel the need to donate my thoughts on the issue.

The captives in Guantanamo do not fit the description of Prisoners of War. Neither are they criminals who should be free to have access to the outside world via a conventional prison.

For the most part, they were captured in a region beset by war. They were acting as guerilla combatants opting not to follow the general conventions of war by wearing a uniform, have a code of honor, seperating themselves from the general populace, not having a chain of command, etc.

I understand the why's of what they did, combatting the US military is a daunting task. Our technology far surpasses anything they have and a stand up fight would be a slaughter for them.

However, they can provide US intelligence agencies with vital information, maybe not so much now as much time has passed since they were knowledgable of the comings and goings of other terrorists, and it is best ti keep the enemy unaware of who provided what information. By keeping the enemy unaware of who was captured and what they have told, we are able to stay a step ahead of the enemy.

For example, Muhammed was part of a task force setup to place roadside bombs outside Khabul. He knows Achmed, Rhahim, and Freddy. He knows where they all get their bomb making materiels, he knows when drop offs are made, he knows lots of stuff.

Once Muhammed is in US custody, we can not allow his friends to know where he is or what he has said. For the safety of those troops. His friends will know to change all their plans, change all their contacts and change their sources for bombs. But, because we were able to gain info from Muhammed, we have been watching the 3 of them and we now know there routine. We swoop in and pick them up and the chain continues...until we get to the people running the show.

It is vital to keep them in custody because that solves 2 issues. 1) we know where they are and we know they will no longer be attacking US or coalition forces and 2) we are keeping the enemy from knowing what information has been gathered and what information we haven't gathered. That is rather important.

Actual POW's from Iraq have been treated as such. Those from Afghanistan who opted to not act as soldiers do not deserve to be treated as POW's.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

Which actual provision of the Act did you take exception to?

Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution.

Tinker with your civil rights at your peril.

(See you didn't answer the Guantanamo questions, then)

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

Which actual provision of the Act did you take exception to?

Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution.

Tinker with your civil rights at your peril.

(See you didn't answer the Guantanamo questions, then)

So you purport to be against the Patriot Act, but are unable to specify anything specific in it that you object to. How characteristic of the A2K liberals.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

Which actual provision of the Act did you take exception to?

Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution.

Tinker with your civil rights at your peril.

(See you didn't answer the Guantanamo questions, then)

So you purport to be against the Patriot Act, but are unable to specify anything specific in it that you object to. How characteristic of the A2K liberals.

What part of "Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution. " drew you to the conclusion that I purport to be against the Patriot act? Unless of course you know that it contains a lot of shite that DOES go against the aforementioned Constitution.

You seem to be totally unruffled that your basic freedoms, so revered around the world, are probably going to be eroded on a permanent basis.

If this is the case, then you Sir, are no Patriot, IMO.

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, isn't that about what happened in WW2 and every other war in history? Prisoners of war are not in the same class as people who have committed civil offenses.

If you're so convinced that the Guantanamo captives are prisoners of war, please be good enough to tell me why they have ended up there, and not on the USA mainland?

Are you completely at ease with what your leaders have done with these people?

Can you hold your head up high at the way the "Leaders of the free world" have treated them?

....If there is ANY shadow of doubt in your mind regarding this whole matter of Guantanamo, it would then be of concern to me that you are unquestioning when it comes to these same leaders wishing to extend or make permanent, the aforementioned Patriot Act at home, without some thorough questioning and investigations.

However, if there is NO shadow of doubt re. all of the above, then I would have the opinion that you have some sort of problem.
I have no idea what that problem may be, but I'll bet that it is hard to pronounce.

Which actual provision of the Act did you take exception to?

Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution.

Tinker with your civil rights at your peril.

(See you didn't answer the Guantanamo questions, then)

So you purport to be against the Patriot Act, but are unable to specify anything specific in it that you object to. How characteristic of the A2K liberals.

What part of "Any part of it that goes against your exceptionally brilliant and unique constitution. " drew you to the conclusion that I purport to be against the Patriot act? Unless of course you know that it contains a lot of shite that DOES go against the aforementioned Constitution.

You seem to be totally unruffled that your basic freedoms, so revered around the world, are probably going to be eroded on a permanent basis.

If this is the case, then you Sir, are no Patriot, IMO.

Which freedom is going to be eroded? Be specific. Cite a source to support your assertion. If you have no evidence to back up any of your allegations, then stop talking.

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bush Insists We Must Have Patriot Act

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