What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

You can speak in relative terms but it doesn't prove much, you have to actually examine the policies of the Nazi Party, which I have done, and have challenged you to do, but as yet you have not met the challenge.

And besides, one would think railing against capitalists for Hitler would be common knowledge for a self proclaimed expert on German history, that lives in Germany.

Walter. Again, examine the 25 points of the party and try to convince everyone that it isn't liberal leftist thinking. Try it. If you are so smart, go ahead. We can take each point at a time, but I think one of the central points pretty much ends the debate in favor of my conclusion here.

I am continually amused at the intellectuals on this forum that just can't abide a hick from Oklahoma puncturing their long held beliefs that they were indoctrinated with at some point in their past. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would think you should welcome a fresh perspective that can challenge some of this stuff.

I find it amusing alot of people have denigrated my information here, but at least you now dare to admit it has credibility, but not until after making a few cute comments about teaching you about German politics and history.

I don't care what papers you wrote or what university you went to, frankly, Walter. And if you think you have pearls and I am swine, that tells everyone here about your attitude doesn't it, but as they say, if you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. If you can't defend your opinion with any substance, then quit bothering me here. This forum is about posting evidence once in a while at least.

Well, if that was misleading, I'll say/write it again:

okie has told me on this thread a couple of times that he had studied the NSDAP history and that I don't understand it.

Setanta wrote:

By the standards of virtually every other country in the world, Mr. Obama and the Democrats are right-wing. It is only the hysteria of reactionaries in the the United States which brands them as dangerous socialists.

Centre-right, some, perhaps.

One of the running debates here in politics has been with mainly "old europe," but other as well, in regard to whether Hitler was an extreme rightist or a socialist or leftist. I have now read some of Mein Kampf and have also read the 25 points of the Nazi Party. I believe the evidence is clear from these documents that Hitler was leftist or a socialist, in context with American politics, left and right. I am going to list the Nazi 25 points of the party in the following.

Note, Setanta has accused of ignoring some of his examples. I think some of these have already been addressed on previous pages of this thread, but we can do so again. I have been sort of out of pocket the last few days, but in a few days will be more able to spend more time to address specific dictators, such as Pinochet.

I think this identifies the problem, you guys are using a yardstick out of Europe or somewhere else, maybe from past centuries even, who knows, but I have been clear I think that I am using a yardstick of left vs right, as currently understood in American politics today. Did you not know this? Do you consider Obama a right winger? Incredible, if that is the case, and no wonder you guys are confused.

Even if you choose to compare it with the USA, you have to compare it within that time window.

And using todays parameter from the United States is entirely logical, after all, what is so hard to accept that at certain times in Europe or Germany, almost all the political leanings were to the left. If the sky is various shades of red at a particular time of day, as in history, that is what it is, and trying to argue that part of it is blue when it isn't, just to prove that it is different than another shade of red, that is totally inaccurate. If part of the sky is not quite as red, that does not indicate that it is blue. Similarly, if a political party is not quite as socialist as another, but still socialist, that does not make it right wing, it only makes it not quite as leftward, but still left.

okie wrote:

And using todays parameter from the United States is entirely logical, after all, what is so hard to accept that at certain times in Europe or Germany, almost all the political leanings were to the left. If the sky is various shades of red at a particular time of day, as in history, that is what it is, and trying to argue that part of it is blue when it isn't, just to prove that it is different than another shade of red, that is totally inaccurate. If part of the sky is not quite as red, that does not indicate that it is blue. Similarly, if a political party is not quite as socialist as another, but still socialist, that does not make it right wing, it only makes it not quite as leftward, but still left.

Alright. I rest my case about this now really.

However, okie, what do you think about those two books/essays I've mentioned above?

And where, do you think, was the first Social-Democratic party founded?

What does, in your opinion, the term 'Nazi' mean and how did it come in use?

I think we've covered all of that. I've discussed the 25 points of the party. What more can be done? Why don't you take the 25 points and categorize each as left or right, as I have requested several times. After all, that is where the rubber meets the road. If you don't like to use that, go back to the horse's mouth, Mein Kampf.

If you don't like to use that, go back to the horse's mouth, Mein Kampf.

Hitler co-authered the 25-points as they were published in 1920.
(I've given quite a lot of information about the history of the 25-points which you obviously didn't notice.)

I am still trying to digest the fact that if you think Obama is a rightee, then this debate is hopeless anyway.

And I still would like to hear your opinion of FDR, to the left or right of Hitler, and what was FDR, left or right here in the U.S.? Was he conservative, to the right, or was he to the left and more liberal?

Okay, great, now categorize each of them as left or right. I would like to see your assessment. We have been talking for over 40 pages, and I did that on Page 2, and I am still waiting for yours.

okie wrote:

Okay, great, now categorize each of them as left or right. I would like to see your assessment. We have been talking for over 40 pages, and I did that on Page 2, and I am still waiting for yours.

I think such to be a childish way to look at history. I've tried - like others - to explain the basics of the situation in Germany. (And I even left out the Thule society and it's influence on those points at all!)