20
   

What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

 
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 02:47 pm
@Francis,
Blimey. I thought that was part of the compensation.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 02:52 pm
@Francis,
not sure about that, William F Buckley drove a Checker and I'm sure he put many miles down 5th st.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 03:02 pm
@dyslexia,
Didn't know the guy but I can now see he was a well known communist.

Err, columnist..
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 03:06 pm
@Francis,
Aren't all columnists communists if not related to FoxNews?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 09:15 pm
I know this is all very funny here, sorry to interrupt the humor and remind people that communism has been responsible for untold tragedy, murder and starvation. I hope you all don't find that funny as well.

After Walter accused me of planning assassinations, perhaps he would think it was funny for all I know, that seems to be interesting to him.

On ignore you go, Walter, you aren't worth the time here if you can't bring yourself to apologize for accusing of that. Same for Setanta. I am done with your pathetic ilk. I never realized I was talking with virtual Marxists until I was given a lecture by Setanta about the evils of capitalism. Why don't you move to Venezuela, Setanta, and help Chavez teach the children and leave us alone here?

Too many people have died fighting tyranny for me to waste time talking to those that apologize for it, and even subscribe to some of its beliefs.

Bye.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:01 pm
Capitalism has been responsible for millions of deaths, too. But i suppose that you don't consider that it counts if it comes from shoddy products, adulterated food and drugs and wars fought over natural resources, huh, Okie?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:02 pm
Hey Okie . . . don't let the door hit ya in the ass . . .
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  5  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 06:58 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
I never realized I was talking with virtual Marxists until I was given a lecture by Setanta about the evils of capitalism.

That wasn't a lecture on the evils of capitalism. It's a lecture on the evils of men. (By "men", I mean "humans".)

The evils of men are constant across political systems and economic systems; it's just their effects are magnified when they are able to wield great political or economic power.

Communism isn't evil or good. Socialism isn't evil or good. Capitalism isn't evil or good.
Oligarchy isn't evil or good. Representative democracy isn't evil or good. Monarchy and feudalism aren't evil or good.

These are all things invented by men, and the purposes to which they are put (by people) determine their value.


Pure capitalism does result in horrible abuses, because people are venal. Read up sometime about why the FDA was created, for chrissakes.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:19 am
@DrewDad,
Loud applause . . .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:32 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad, Good post! However, there's no way to penetrate into okie's brain with "new/logiccal" information. The fundamental issue is that, as you say, all races, cultures, political parties, are "managed" by men who can be evil; it's not the group itself that's evil or bad. Even "men" who are leaders of religious' organizations are evil; the church is not evil.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:36 am
@DrewDad,
Drewdad, I agree with you about the evils of men. And I will not argue that men can and will be dishonest and abuse others as capitalists. However, this is important to consider, I believe as our founders believed that because of the tendencies of human nature - it is infinitely unwise to place into the hands of government, essentially giving them a monopoly on everything, commerce, and your own personal decisions. If man retains the right to earn and keep what he earns, and to spend how he pleases, this will not eliminate corruption but it will provide a better check and balance over it, simply by virtue of the fact that you have choices over who you do business with. For example, if a lawyer is crooked, the people find out and avoid that person. If a store charges unfair prices, you go somewhere else. If an employee is not dependable, you hire someone else. If an employer is unfair, you have the choice of getting another job.

Life is not perfect, capitalism is not perfect, but it is infinitely better than placing everything into the hands of a monopoly, a politburo, or whatever.

So, I believe communism is inherently evil, simply because it usurps individual rights and liberty in the so-called and unrealistic hope of fairness, social justice, equality, and equality of outcome.

The really important thing about our government as constituted, it was intended to protect us from each other, it should not end up us having to guard ourselves from it, which is what it is becoming. Thats like the fox guarding the henhouse, it does not work. We do need rules and laws to protect us from each other, like a referee of a game, but the referee should not be playing the game.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 12:25 pm
You're right DD, he can't distinguish between political systems and economic systems.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 12:56 pm
@Setanta,
Which isn't surprising since okie obviously has one single one-dimensioned view of the world.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 01:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Please, guys, not another mob scene. Anyway a big advertising agency in Germany is promoting videos of Hitler, Stalin, and Saddam Hussein (actors playing them) in what is supposed to be a campaign against AIDS. Okie isn't alone in his beliefs!
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 01:33 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

HS wrote:
I know Okie will never speak to me again after this.....


Given what you get as compensation, does it matter?


I like Okie, and I don't mind running interference for him. Did you see any of the ads? They're on German TV, not sure about rest of Europe.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 01:46 pm
@High Seas,
This is a link to an article in German http://www.freitag.de/kultur/0937-aids-hiv-massenmoerder-hitler-stalin-kampagne-regenbogen
The ad campaign is called "AIDS is a Mass Murderer" - the public seems evenly divided on the effectiveness of such ads, with many gay-lesbian groups violently protesting use of dictators. Maybe we can convince them that AIDS, like the dictators, is left-wing?!
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 01:52 pm
@High Seas,
I've seen them but as part of a documentary, because they are very controversial.

But isn't it called freedom of speech in the US?
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:09 pm
@High Seas,
Weeell.... I'd say it's really just a statement of facts. Have you read the article okie posted here?

The author of that article suggests to replace the "classic" political spectrum
http://imgur.com/HxS2b.gif

with what he calls the "accurate" political spectrum:
http://imgur.com/YAOOu.gif

Note that he's not suggesting that a second dimension should be added, but rather that a single dimension can accurately represent the political spectrum.

From the article okie posted:
Quote:
At the left extreme reside the hard tyrannies of communism and fascism, as seen historically in such places as the Soviet Union, China, Germany, or North Korea. A bit to the right are the softer tyrannies of socialism, as commonly practiced in Western Europe. Liberalism comes next, then "moderation." Moving further along the spectrum toward greater liberty, one finds conservatism, and finally libertarianism.

Quote:
The most important effect of the new, accurate political spectrum is the clarity it brings to political analysis and discourse. Where the measurement of liberty was obscure or absent from the classic spectrum, it is the foundation for the new spectrum. Political parties, their candidates, past or present political systems from around the world, all can be placed with rough accuracy on the spectrum.



It was my assumption that okie actually agreed with the author of that article.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:11 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

But isn't it called freedom of speech in the US?

Speech is free here, but still the ad is in apalling taste. Of course I don't know how to make a beautiful ad about AIDS, so maybe that format will be effective. I still say we should unleash Okie on Europe to convince them AIDS is a communist plot - assuming OE can fit that into the continuum.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:32 pm
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

Please, guys, not another mob scene. Anyway a big advertising agency in Germany is promoting videos of Hitler, Stalin, and Saddam Hussein (actors playing them) in what is supposed to be a campaign against AIDS. Okie isn't alone in his beliefs!


It a rather small agency: Das Comiee calls itself "the smallest creative advertising agency in Germany.

.
Quote:
The ads, created by the German AIDS group Verein Regenbogen and the advertising agency Das Comitee, are intended to raise awareness about HIV and AIDS. The 45-second spot depicts a man and woman having sex, and concludes by revealing the man to be a look-a-like of Adolf Hitler. “AIDS is a mass murderer,” reads the tagline, “Protect yourself!”

“The campaign is designed to shake people up, to bring the topic of AIDS back to center stage, and to reverse the trend of unprotected sexual intercourse,” said Regenbogen on its Web site. “Over the past number of years, public interest in AIDS has massively declined.”

Quote:
“Only very few of the TV-viewers will combine Adolf Hitler with the HI-virus,” said the German AIDS Foundation (“Deutsche AIDS-Stiftung”) in a press release condemning the ads. “More obviously seems a chain of associations: HIV-positive equals (mass) murderer. Therefore the campaign fosters the stigmatization of people living with HIV and AIDS.”

Source

Actually, you neither can't see the video online (not on the homepage nor on youtube) and the webside of the association behind it ("Regenbogen e.V.") is down, too.
 

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