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The Abramoff scandal investigation

 
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 07:32 pm
blatham wrote:
slkshock7 wrote:
CI, Roxxxanne,

Too bad you're out on the left coast and I'm on the East or I'd bet you a six-pack that Abramhoff will just be a bad memory this time next year. Dems will keep it at a hot flame for as long as possible, seeing it as a tool to earn them a few votes in the Nov elections. But shortly after Nov...the scandal will be forgotten, not even worthy of mention in history textbooks.


It's quite up to you, but I think you are taking the least politically prudent approach to this matter. I also think it is the least wise in terms of the health of your democracy and that's far more important.

Read the recent column by David Brooks or see Rich Lowry, for example... http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200601100816.asp


Blatham,
You found a good article...and I can't disagree with anything Lowry says, other than his capitulation that this is "only a Republican scandal", which, in my mind, is yet to be determined.

I also see where you're coming from with regard to my jaded perspective as being unhealthy for the American democracy (although I'd simply consider myself a realist). It would be interesting and probably a very good GOP tactic to gain party concensus on embracing some of Lowry's suggestions for reform. With the screams of outrage at this scandal from the left still echoing in their ears, the dems would be hard pressed to counter a GOP-led drive for reform.

However, my cynical eye looks at the 527 loophole in McCain-Feingold and says that, even should such reform occur, other loopholes will emerge to ensure money scandals continue. Love and Marriage, Horse and Carriage, Money and Politics...They all go together...You can't have one without the other....[size=7]my apologies to Frank Sinatra[/size]
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 08:15 pm
Prosecutors questioning Abramoff is what will keep this scandal alive.

They didn't give him a deal because he had nothing to say about anyone else. I am guessing that at least 3 congressmen or their aides will be charged in this before it is over. Just a guess, but without the return there would have been no reason for a deal.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 08:27 pm
DeLay-Abramoff link explored

Quote:
DeLay-Abramoff link explored
DeLay unsuccessfully pressed the U.S. to close a Texas casino opposed by one of the lobbyist's clients.
Suzanne Gamboa, Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Rep. Tom DeLay tried to pressure the Bush administration into closing an Indian-owned casino that lobbyist Jack Abramoff wanted closed shortly after one of his clients donated to a DeLay political action committee.
DeLay, the House Republican leader at the time, unsuccessfully demanded closure of the casino owned by the Alabama-Coushatta tribe of Texas in a Dec. 11, 2001, letter to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft. The Associated Press obtained the letter from a source who requested anonymity.

"We feel that the Department of Justice needs to step in and investigate the inappropriate and illegal actions by the tribe, its financial backers, if any, and the casino equipment vendors," said the letter that also was signed by GOP Reps. Pete Sessions, John Culberson and Kevin Brady of Texas.

Sessions' PAC received $6,500 from Abramoff's clients within three months. A spokeswoman for Sessions said he considers gaming to be a state issue, the tribe was circumventing state law and Sessions signed the letter in defense of Texas laws.

0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 08:51 pm
Washington Times wrote:
A Justice Department investigation into influence-peddling on Capitol Hill is focusing on a "first tier" of lawmakers and staffers, both Republicans and Democrats, say sources close to the probe that has netted guilty pleas from lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
Law-enforcement authorities and others said the investigation's opening phase is scrutinizing Sens. Conrad Burns, Montana Republican; Byron L. Dorgan, North Dakota Democrat; and Minority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, along with Reps. J.D. Hayworth, Arizona Republican, and Bob Ney, Ohio Republican.

<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>
The source said prosecutors asked Abramoff whether the lawmakers had performed "official acts" in exchange for campaign cash or other favors. Although it is unknown whether any of the five will be charged in the case, the source said Abramoff was being "prepped" by five Justice Department attorneys in that event.
Others familiar with the investigation confirmed the names of the three Republican and two Democratic legislators.
All five lawmakers said that they have not done anything illegal and that all their dealings with Abramoff and his clients were legitimate.
The sources also said that at least two legislative directors and other lobbyists are under investigation in the preliminary round of inquiry. The probe is expected to widen and could ensnare "a minimum" of 20 members of Congress, they said.
Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay has not been directly implicated by Abramoff in the probe, but the Texas Republican's former deputy chief of staff, Tony Rudy, has emerged as a person of interest in the preliminary probe, the sources said.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 08:56 pm
Gotta love the Washington Times and the way the manage to somehow find 2 democrats to splash front and center while moving Ney, the most visible prosecutorial target to a minor role.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:34 pm
au1929 wrote:
Okie wrote
Quote:
By the way, there were anti-war nuts around during WWII as well. My parents told me about them.


Did Mommy and Daddy tell you they were isolationists and were against participating in any foreign war. Believing that the vastness of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans would protect the US. That all ended with the bombing of Pearl Harbor.


And so how does that fit in with the logic of today's isolationists? And hey, where is FDR when we need him with these terrorists? He would have every Middle easterner in America, hundreds of thousands of citizens and otherwise, rounded up soon after 911 and thrown in concentration camps around the country. Who knows, maybe that would have solved the problem?

Anyway, back to Abramoff, so the word is both Republicans and Democrats are in the crosshairs? Who knows, but I read in the paper that Reid got something like about $60,000, but he says his contributions are different than those given to Republicans of course. Lobbyists only give money to Democrats for the fun of it, but when they give it to Republicans, it is corrupt money. I don't have a clue what he thinks, I am only guessing based on what is known.

I'm looking forward to this Abramoff stuff. I hope they start investigating more lobbyists. Lets clean house. Funny thing though, I thought John McCain fixed all of this?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:58 pm
Okie
Okie, I don't shock easily, but I was shocked at your enthusiasm for President Roosevelt rounding up Japanese Americans and putting them in concentration camps after WWII.

My best friend and her family were interred as was one of our A2K members, Cicerone Imposter, and his family.

Roosevelt's act was unconstitutional and the worst taint on his presidency. The military leadership that proposed his action should also be ashamed.

Fear makes people do terrible things, stupid things.

BBB
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 01:02 pm
Quote:
And so how does that fit in with the logic of today's isolationists? And hey, where is FDR when we need him with these terrorists? He would have every Middle easterner in America, hundreds of thousands of citizens and otherwise, rounded up soon after 911 and thrown in concentration camps around the country. Who knows, maybe that would have solved the problem?


This is a racist and despicable opinion. I would like to give you the opportunity to explain how you didn't really mean it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:08 pm
slkshock7:

Your Moonie Times article is, shall we say, incorrect on the subject of Harry Reid:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jan-12-Thu-2006/news/5324874.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- The Justice Department is not focusing on Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada as part of an investigation of lobbyist Jack Abramoff, a source close to the probe said Wednesday in challenging a published report.

The source, who requested anonymity, said the Justice Department is leading the investigation, which includes other agencies.

"But the Justice Department does not have a list of lawmakers who are being investigated," the source said.


You see, they totally made that part up. Totally. Not that you should be surprised; you DO know who owns and runs that paper, don't you?

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:42 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
This is a racist and despicable opinion. I would like to give you the opportunity to explain how you didn't really mean it.

Cycloptichorn


I am not in favor of that policy. I never said I agreed with FDR. I am only pointing out what FDR would have done to solve the problem. I think it is instructive to see how far we've drifted since WWII in terms of policy.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:48 pm
sorry, but when you say

Quote:
And hey, where is FDR when we need him with these terrorists? He would have every Middle easterner in America, hundreds of thousands of citizens and otherwise, rounded up soon after 911 and thrown in concentration camps around the country. Who knows, maybe that would have solved the problem?


You are agreeing with and advocating his position that this is the right thing to do. You are implicitly stating that we need someone to round up all the Middle Easterners in America.

I will take your last post as a retraction, but I have a poor opinion of racist posts.

Cycloptichorn
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:50 pm
Okie
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
This is a racist and despicable opinion. I would like to give you the opportunity to explain how you didn't really mean it.
Cycloptichorn


I am not in favor of that policy. I never said I agreed with FDR. I am only pointing out what FDR would have done to solve the problem. I think it is instructive to see how far we've drifted since WWII in terms of policy.


It sure looks like you approved FDR's action in your statement, which I shall quote. Twist it any way you wish but it is clear about your meaning.

"And so how does that fit in with the logic of today's isolationists? And hey, where is FDR when we need him with these terrorists? He would have every Middle easterner in America, hundreds of thousands of citizens and otherwise, rounded up soon after 911 and thrown in concentration camps around the country. Who knows, maybe that would have solved the problem?"

At least have the integrity to admit your ugly racist statement.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:53 pm
In point of fact, Earl Warren, the Republican Attorney General from 1938, acting for the state of California, first proposed the camps for Japanese-Americans, and rounded them up. It was only later that it was made Federal policy. He (Warren) was elected Governor of California, as a Republican, in 1942. He was still in that office in 1953, when the Republican President, Eisenhower, appointed him Chief Justice of the Supremes. But hey, i don't want to confuse the issue with anything like fact.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 03:20 pm
Re: Okie
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

At least have the integrity to admit your ugly racist statement.

BBB


Good grief, you people have no concept of what it means to illustrate the absurd with absurdity.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 04:23 pm
Re: Okie
okie wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

At least have the integrity to admit your ugly racist statement.

BBB


Good grief, you people have no concept of what it means to illustrate the absurd with absurdity.


Sorry okie,
I'm a conservative,and I also think your statement was waaaay out of line.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 08:04 pm
Hey mysteryman, whats going on here? I am not an FDR fan. Does anybody here have a sense of humor? I am only trying to illustrate here that FDR, the man most Democrats worship in terms of an icon, and in fact is trumpeted as the genius of the New Deal, did what he did. There are so many bleeding hearts around, this is getting pretty ridiculous. In no way do I condone or favor such a program. I am only trying to remind the liberals here with some historical reference.

If I am so rotten 65 years after the fact for simply making a joke about it to make a point, how come FDR gets a pass? One debater here even attempts to blame it entirely on a Republican. This is getting bizarre.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 08:32 pm
Weekly Standard wrote:
The Friends of Jack Abramoff
They're not all Republicans.
by Matthew Continetti
01/16/2006, Volume 011, Issue 17



"THIS IS A REPUBLICAN scandal," Harry Reid, the Democrats' leader in the Senate, told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace in December. Wallace had asked Reid about his relationship with Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist who last week pleaded guilty, in two separate investigations, to five counts of mail fraud, tax evasion, wire fraud, and conspiracy. Reid said there was no relationship. "Abramoff gave me no money," he said. "So don't lump me in with Jack Abramoff."

Reid might not have taken money directly from Abramoff, a lifelong Republican and conservative activist, but he did accept donations--some $66,000 worth--from Abramoff's clients, Indian tribes operating casinos throughout the United States. And Reid's willingness to do so, and his reluctance to return the Abramoff-related funds, as many of his Republican colleagues have done, suggests that Washington's latest lobbying scandal may be more complex than partisans have let on, and more difficult for Democrats to make partisan hay out of than pundits now think.


What follows is an excellent description of the illegal money-making schemes of Scanlon and Abramhoff. What is really interesting though is their plan to influence Congress...a Congress which, at the time included a Republican House and Democratic Senate. They decided to add a rider onto the Help America Vote Act of 2002, chosen because it was a sure-bet bound to be passed by both houses. All they needed was to get the congressional leaders for the process to go along with the deal. Who do they approach first....None else but Chris Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut. Bob Ney came in after Scanlon and Abramhoff were confident they had Dodd in their pocket.

Weekly Standard wrote:

Schwartz told Sen. John McCain in November 2004 that he recalled "an agreement between Mr. Abramoff and Senator Dodd early in the process. And Representative Ney came on the scene somewhat later." Schwartz's testimony jibes with the contents of an April 12, 2002, memo Scanlon sent to his tribal contacts, in which he wrote that "we have Senate support," but that "they are looking for political cover."

The route by which Scanlon had supposedly secured Dodd's cooperation was circuitous. His firm, Scanlon & Gould, aka Capital Campaign Strategies, paid another firm, Lunde & Burger, $50,000 to lobby the Connecticut Democrat. "He called me about the Tiguas' wanting to reopen their casino," Brian Lunde, a former Democratic National Committee executive director who in 2004 was the national chair of Democrats for Bush, later told the New York Times. "I checked around, and it was the formal position of the DNC to have that reopened." Lunde and Burger entered into a $10,000 subcontract with yet another "public relations strategist" to lobby Dodd directly. Enter Lottie Shackelford.


Who's Lottie Shackleford? None other than a member of Dodd's fundraising committee. She evidently takes the $10K to "to make personal contact with the Senator throughout the campaign starting in April and lasting through the passage of the legislation in October." In fairness to Dodd, when questioned in 2004, he admitted Shackelford approached him about adding the Tigua rider, but, according to Dodd, "the suggestion was summarily rejected." Now did Dodd return it because of some superior sense of ethics? No...Dodd later states..."with the problems of new casinos in Connecticut, it is a problem." So did Shackelford return the $10K....hardly...

Without Dodd's support Abramhoff and Scanlon were unable to get the rider added to the HAVA. The plan fell through, but everyone kept the money.

I've edited it somewhat, but encourage you all to read the full story at Weekly Standard
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 08:48 pm
No offense, but the Weekly Standard is a right wing mouthpiece.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2006 04:39 am
FreeDuck wrote:
No offense, but the Weekly Standard is a right wing mouthpiece.


And those claiming this is "just a Republican Scandal" are left-wing mouthpieces. Attempting to influence Congress by buying "persuaders" close to the Congressman is a technique commonly used by both parties. The Dems are aiming for trouble by claiming they've never done it or no longer do it.

Did you read the full article? It pulls no punches either left or right...plus it comes with specifics and testimony from Dodd and others on the scandal. It does not excuse what Abramhoff and Scanlon did, simply points out that the Democratic parsing of words may backfire on them. It's the best article I've seen to date that lays out the facts on the non-Republican side of the scandal.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2006 06:35 am
One small problem with your story there slk. It doesn't show much of anything. Some rather interesting contradictions in it however.

Quote:
None else but Chris Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut. Bob Ney came in after Scanlon and Abramhoff were confident they had Dodd in their pocket.


Quote:
In fairness to Dodd, when questioned in 2004, he admitted Shackelford approached him about adding the Tigua rider, but, according to Dodd, "the suggestion was summarily rejected."


Dodd was so firmly in their pocket that he didn't do what was suggested? Rather a skimpy charge there. Dodd didn't return what money? I can find no mention of Dodd getting any contributions in connection to the Tigua in this story. Lobbyists got paid by Abramoff indirectly but no mention of campaign contributions to Dodd. Lobbyists get paid whether successful or not. They don't return money.

One other item you forgot to mention, it was the Democratic position BEFORE Dodd was ever approached to support the Tigua in their casino bid. Even with that being the Democratic position, Dodd still didn't support putting a rider in the bill at the last minute. There is no "Democrats did it too" anywhere in that story.

The only thing I got out of it is lobbyists are scummy.
But that isn't much of a suprise.
0 Replies
 
 

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