Excellent site, Gelisgesti. I am bookmarking it to read when I get home tonight.
At the risk of waxing prolix about Karen Armstrong, whose thinking and research I respect, she spends a good deal of time (in "Islam") discussing fundamentalism, which arises when a religion feels that its basic tenets are being diluted and modernized. Fascinating stuff. Islam was late to fundamentalism. Christianity and Judaism got there long before.
Puts a face on the boogy man .....
There is something good about a devotion to ones faith as deep and obviously sincere ...... but ....... but ...... why does any religion always incur bloodshed
I wish I knew. Fundamentalism in any form is always dangerous. The more moderate among us are responsible for the hospitals, colleges and relief efforts...
Gelisgesti
Why, because religion sells exclusivity and intolerance. Those concepts will always lead to conflict.
"There is something good about a devotion to ones faith as deep and obviously sincere .."
Indeed there is, Gelisgesti. What I can't fatham is how devotion to one's faith is license to try to eliminate the faith of another.
There seemingly is a thin blood red line between the pious and the fanatic
Visitor, are you referring to the way the Shi'a mosques and imams organized the relief efforts after our invasion, helping families with food and places to stay, and attending to other needs?
(I like your Goethe quote.)
mysteryman,
Thank you for your service to the country. Great timing of your post. Welcome home and...
Happy Memorial Day!
"After every war,while it is the responsibility of the victors to protect and defend the population,it is also the responsibility of the local govt to insure that the police,fire authorities,and other vital functions are maintained.Even Germany,after WW2,had their local police forces available to keep order."
Actually, according to both the Hague and Geneva Conventions, it's the responsibility of the invading country(ies) to provide security and vital services.
Are there any links to how security was maintained in Post-war Germany? It's hard to imagine Patton walking around amidst uniformed German police officers, but if it happened I'd like to know.
Joe
No, Kara, I was simply referring to the history that religious groups (esp. in America) have of initiating and supporting those efforts. Sometimes I get tired of all the religion-bashing on here and feel the need to add some balance, that's all.
Visitor:
Everytime I think there might be hope these people show up:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/national/27ISLA.html?pagewanted=1
Did these people get baptised or brainwashed?
love
Joe
Joe Nation wrote:Are there any links to how security was maintained in Post-war Germany? It's hard to imagine Patton walking around amidst uniformed German police officers, but if it happened I'd like to know.
Joe
In fact, Joe, there was a great public outcry against Patton's post-war administration, because he put Nazi officials right back into power locally, and when criticized retorted that they knew how to get the job done, which was his only interest. His untimely and unexpected death end the controversy, however.
Joe Nation, I read that article in my NYTimes, this morning, and shuddered at where that is all going. If moderate Islamists had cause to fear us before, they now must hide in their homes to avoid evangelical missionaries.
Visitor, I don't see much religion-bashing on this thread. I myself have nothing but praise and respect for those who, under religious motivation, spend their lives trying to make this a better world for others. From what their creeds profess, the three major mono-theistic religions are all based on compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, non-violence, and lovingkindness. It is in the translation of those virtues into action where there is many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip.
I did get a chuckle out of the NYTimes story where one woman pointed out that Muslims "pray to get points," not to commuicate with God. Remember when the Catholic Church was serious about Indulgences?
Seeing Islam as 'Evil' Faith, Evangelicals Seek Converts
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
GROVE CITY, Ohio — On a recent Saturday in a church fellowship hall here, evangelical Christians from several states gathered for an all-day seminar on how to woo Muslims away from Islam.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/national/27ISLA.html?th
This Is an example of the perfidy of religion and how religious persecution, massacres and war have been started through the ages.
Mysteryman should be sent to Guantanamo to be tortured.
He is a war criminal. (and a liar)
Joe -- Ugh. That is truly repulsive. There is a passage in C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity" that describes the "kingdom of God" as a mansion with many rooms. Those folks have obviously gone into their room, shut the door, locked it, bolted it, and pulled down the blinds. I hope you know me better than that. Love you, too.
Kara -- Thanks for the kind words. You're absolutely right...the problem is not with the religions themselves, but those who practice them. Come to think of it, "practice" is a pretty good word for it.
Divided we stand, united we fall. Organized religion has always been an oxymoron -- even within Christianity there are sects who are in aggressive opposition to the interpretation of the Bible. Fundamentalism is a regressive interpretation of history tantamount to the conservative viewpoint of politics. No wonder one finds them hand in hand. A true American has tolerance of those who choose not to believe and should be true conversely but when fundamentalism threatens our freedoms as it has in the past and will in the future, that is not acceptable.
Whether we should or should not have gone into Irag is now moot -- it's what we do afterwards there as well in Afghanistan where the influence of various forms of fundamentalism is a tougher battle than the military battle.
Germany after the war? Don't remember (did I ever know?!) the details, but we all know that Germany -- and of course Berlin-- was divided into sectors with military in control.
I have to admit I associate religion with ignorance (often willful). Not spirituality, but religion.
Visitor, I have read "Mere Christianity" more than once. I might send my copy to the proselytizing evangelicals (not all evangelicals, mind you, just the crusading ones.)
