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The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 01:18 pm
Timber and mamajuana

Thanks but Kuvasz probably smells blood and will want me to fall on my sword. I can see him now composing a blistering attack on me for my second attack on Krugman.

Hey Kuvasz----I'm waving a white flag, Shocked
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 01:33 pm
perception, I agree with mamajuana that you wrote a good rethink.

When I have to back away from an ill-considered position, I think of what Samuel Johnson said, in explaining why he had changed a long-held point of view: "Ignorance, sir, ignorance."

But my favorite retreating comment is from Baron Bramwell, 19th Cent. English lawyer and judge: "The matter does not appear to me now as it appears to have appeared to me then."
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 01:42 pm
Kara

Both good----I choose the latter. Thanks
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 01:53 pm
Quote:
Hoon to take blame for weapons expert's death
August 11, 2003

Britain's Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon is being lined up as the government's "fall guy" over the apparent suicide of David Kelly, the weapons expert at the centre of an uproar over the way Britain was led into the Iraq war, a British newspaper reported yesterday.

As a judicial inquiry into Kelly's death prepares to begin hearing testimonies today, the Sunday Express said Hoon would resign once presiding judge Lord Brian Hutton delivered his concluding report into the affair.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) was responsible for "outing" Kelly as the source of a BBC report that alleged the government beefed up a dossier on Iraq ahead of the US-led war in March.

"Hoon will be the fall guy for the whole government," the Sunday Express quoted a government source as saying.

"He is going to be hung out to dry in the hope that his resignation will get (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair off the hook."

The source added: "Nobody believes that Hoon was the one behind the leaking of Dr Kelly's name, that would never have been done without Downing Street's say-so, but Hoon is expendable while the prime minister isn't."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/10/1060454083378.html
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 01:57 pm
i hate it when i argue with someone and they turn out to be right.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 02:23 pm
Dys, that's happen before Question
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 03:13 pm
Oh and I nearly forgot to thank Timber for his compassionate attempt to sooth my wounded ego. I may be forced to adopt the tactics of Saddam and bin Laden----assume a disguise and lay low until the heat fades.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 04:34 pm
I don't know if this will turn out to be true but I like positive articles better than those that are negative.

What Will George Bush Do About North Korea?
How to win without really trying

by Tom Adkins
08/01/03

Now that Iraq has been somewhat tamed with a swift and decisive campaign against Saddam Hussein, the United States is in the middle of a complex nation-building process. During the past 18 months, however, the Bush administration handled another, possibly greater threat with amazing diplomatic maneuver. Yet few recognize the victory. Let's look at the Korean Crisis as it simmers on our back burner.

Early in the Bush Presidency, the Korean peninsula was so quiet that South Korea asked us to consider removing our troops. But when 9/11 signaled the start of a long war against terrorism, President Bush pointed out North Korean dictator Kim Jung IL was part of the "Axis of Evil." Kim took the bait and showed his hand. Believing America was vulnerable, Kim revealed he had duped Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, admitting a nuclear weapons program. Now, he threatened to use nukes to stop American "hostile policies," fend off South Korean threats, and take on the evil Japanese. It wasn't a bad gamble. The last time North Korea rattled the nuclear saber, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter capitulated like frightened Cub Scouts listening to scary campfire stories. Clinton gave North Korea free oil, food and light water nuclear technology in exchange for a promise to stop playing with nuclear toys. Kim agreed, a bargain any fool knew he'd never keep. This time, Kim threatened all sorts of trouble. And after 9/11, George Bush was in a theoretically weakened position.

But Bush has performed a master stroke. Recognizing a nuclear loose cannon in North Korea is a far greater threat to China than the United States, Bush simply ignored Kim. This warned all surrounding nations: they had a direct stake in the outcome. Suddenly, South Korea asked us to stick around. Japan is now seriously considering a nuclear defense. And the last thing China wants is a greater American presence, a better armed North Korea, and six nuclear neighbors (Russia, Pakistan, India, North Korea, South Korea, Japan). The more nukes in the neighborhood, the less valuable China's Loral-guided fleet of ICBMs, which protects its Pacific expansionist designs, becomes.

China, supplying energy and food to North Korea's failed communist economy, is in a unique position to rope in their crazed ally. Wisely, they waited to observe Bush in action. But this week, after our decisive victory and Bush's firm commitment in Iraq, China took the reins in the Korean discussions, essentially telling Kim to knock it off. At that moment, George Bush had his brilliant diplomatic victory.

By doing absolutely nothing, the burden of keeping Kim in line defaults to China in perpetuity, and rallies our friends. North Korea began by threatening the United States, but Bush maneuvered China into the dirty work and made them pay the price. Diplomacy doesn't get any sweeter than that. And there's another benefit: As China grudgingly pays Kim's debts, they admit communist failure while the whole world watches.

And what sweet revenge! On the 50th anniversary of the divided stalemate created when a million Chinese troops crossed the Yalu River, George Bush has hung the massive North Korean stone around China's neck, the last-place ribbon in a high-stakes gamble.

It all goes back to President Bush's decisive military action and commitment to victory. FunnyÂ…Bush set the war dogs on Saddam Hussein, and the world's bad guys suddenly became "cooperative." Syria kicked out Uday Hussein. Iran got more enthusiastic about getting inspected. Al Qaeda is still homeless. Saif al-eslam Gadhafi (Moammar's son) asked the United States to bury the hatchet with Libya. And after Uday and Qusay got their 50-caliber enema, China kicked Kim Jung IL back into the doghouse.

North Korea played the same trick on two presidents. Clinton had far better position and lost. Despite much worse position, Bush gained diplomatic advantage. This proves fighting wisely from a modest position can bring more success than capitulating from a strong position. As Sun Tzu noted, "To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. The victories won by a master of war gain him neither reputation for wisdom nor merit for courage." Of course, the pundit class appeasers are behind the curve, still wondering what George Bush intends to do about North Korea. They can't comprehend victory without a big photo-op signing ceremony with flags, papers and pens flying about. Meanwhile, the battle has been won, without a shot.

Like Reagan, Bush will receive no credit for a brilliant victory nobody recognizes. But then again, they rarely do.

For permission to reprint this article, please contact us at [email protected]

Link to the archive of Tom Adkins: Archive of "the Modern Conservative
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 04:54 pm
I especially like Tom Adkins objectivity even as editor of CommonConservative he goes out of his way to show that his bias is in control and he is tolerant of vagaries of human thought. "Tom has always had a love for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As he received numerous invitations to preach across the nation, he sensed God calling him from the pastoral ministry into full time evangelism. After years of struggling with God's call to become a full-time evangelist, Tom stepped out in faith, believing in God's guidance. Tom was appointed as a General Evangelist from the North Georgia Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church in June of 1994." His view of the Catholic church is charitable and almost kindly,
Quote:
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church faced a growing crisis in the 60s. Potential priests were drawn away to secular temptations. So, the church underwent a reformation, tempting priesthood candidates by easing standards. That attracted gay men. Why not? The Catholic Church offered a target-rich environment and an effective defense system for homosexual rapists. As a gay comedian once stated, "I once studied to be a priest. I'm gay - I'm Catholic - Duuuhhh" Big laughs.
Worse, the seminary has been taken over by homosexuals. In his remarkable book Goodbye! Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood, Michael S. Rose documents homosexual teachers professing disdain for church doctrine and preaching radical homosexual and feminist doctrine. Priests routinely pressure students for homosexual sex, often trolling gay bars in drag, returning to frolic in the seminary shower. Today, an "old homosexual boys" network dominates the religious education of new priests. Straight recruits are drummed out.

I think perception has found a source for optimism we have all overlooked, probably due to our liberal disease so, perception please help us handicapped liberals and donate a brain to the DNC (especially the far left radicals like Dean) so we can all think correctly.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 05:14 pm
Good catch, perc. I read that Adkins piece about a week ago, I thinkit was.

As to my take on Adkin's take in the matter,I've all along indicated I felt the diplomatic approach was the way to go, and that China would factor heavily. For example,
http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=53418#53418

I've said pretty much the same thing a number of times on a number of threads, mostly last fall/winter and early this spring, if anyone cares to ferret out the relevant posts. Just finding that one in my pile was enough of a task to put me off the idea of chasing down any more, but they're here ... lots of 'em. Mr. Green
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:01 pm
Ahh Dys

Please allow me a smidgeon of optimism----there is so little of it these days.

Re the DNC----they need a brain----perhaps they should hire Dick Morris--I'm reasonably certain he's for sale to the highest bidder.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:06 pm
Timber

Bush recognized that military force was not an option with all those artillery tubes just across the DMZ but he really didn't let anyone think that. All we can do is hope that the Chicoms are as pragmatic as everyone thinks. They can withhold aid and bring that lunatic under control. I think you and Adkins have it fairly well analysed.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:18 pm
interesting logic perception, bush certainly "KNEW" that Saddam had those WoMD ready to fire, or did he?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:21 pm
What did God tell him, specifically?
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:26 pm
If only Bush had got religion before dealing with Iraq. History would have read differently. Sun Tzu's quote would have been a good guide for him.

I think Adkins' comments about the Catholic seminaries are a bit over the top. It might be hard to prove such wholesale going-over to a homosexual agenda (and what on earth is meant by preaching "feminism" to seminarians?)
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:33 pm
Oh come on Dys----everyone knew that he had them----they're probably in the same relative location as those Jet Fighters buried in the sand. Now that shows some of the brilliant thinking of that one of a kind strategist. Actually it was better than sending them to Iran. They charged him rent on the first batch sent during Gulf 1 and he couldn't afford to get them back after he built those 50 palaces.

You and the other Dems can waste a million words to his 16 and it won't make a rat-pile difference with the electorate or with me. There's a better than average chance that you guys will be biting your tongues when Dr Kay finalizes his search.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 07:40 pm
Kara

I draw the line at discussing religion except to say the everyone needs one or two. Very Happy
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 09:01 pm
Thoughts on wmd's by Saddam H.

1992
**** **** **** **** ....... wow did I ever get my ass kicked all the way from Kuwait to Baghdad .... what to do what to do??? Well I can
A:
Build my arsenal and get my ass kicked again ..... them amuricans don't play.

B:
Start salting back the cash cause I ain't getting any younger ..... just the thoughht of a nut case like me having nukes should scare em long enough for me to disappear ...... hmmmmm ... I wonder how much Ican get for that crap at the museum .......
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2003 10:02 pm
He has probably disguised himself so well that he is one of the 25 council members---------------------or maybe he is an interpreter for Bremmer.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2003 04:53 am
Point being ....... does anyone think Saddam wanted to go two out of three?
There were/are no wmd's. He took the gold and booked ....... that or he is Noriega's new cribbage partner ...
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