The US, UN & Iraq III

I'm glad the Right thinks it's outnumbered. It may well be -- much more than we on the left have dared to dream. The sleaziest voices on the right shout louder and are omnipresent in the media -- they don't even give a chance to moderate right and centrists. They've alienated whole sections of their own base. Still, it does mean they'll fight harder and even dirtier and we'd better be ready for it!

But I mean that about the new energy on the left. There's a benefit to having been in the wilderness for three years -- we know what we want and we know who we're fighting.

When it comes to statements like "Now I admit that I refuse to debate each little point", I wonder what Perception's purpose is?Just peeking in and shouting epithets and then quickly withdrawing when statements are in dispute?

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a
The only reason presented for invading Iraq .... to this point ..... has been the liberation of the people. I could have bought that line from the get go. But... who are the people? Are they represented by the select 25? I think not.

""I know what we have done is right and we had to do it but there must have been a better way to do it."

When a soldier starts his conversation like this you can't help but really really like him. He was standing in the heat, yesterday it was about 52C, guarding the entrance to building where our "governing council" meets.

And he was on a roll, the next victims of his attack were the members of the governing council themselves.
"these guys, they work only four days and take the rest of the week off, they should be working 16 hour days to get their constitution going". Give the man a cigar.
"they have huge lunches, throw tons of food out and they drive stolen cars"

, by now we were laughing so loud in the car people were looking at us like we were crazy. He said that if his name is ever mentioned he will be in trouble and mentioned something about an "article 15". We had 20 minutes with him while we were being OK-ed for meeting a Council member, he was so cool I wish the Americans didn't freak out every time an Iraqi walks towards them I wanted to shake his hands and say thank you. He made sure I got my pieces of paper back and let us in. But he left us with one more pearl of wisdom:

"They tell you it's the Oil but I know it is not the Oil, I just can't figure out what the hell it is we are here for.""

What good is accomplished by exchanging one illegitimate aristocracy for another, and then labelling the action progress .... the people that need us are the people that walk from birth to death with no greater desire than to die of something other than starvation.

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"Tsk, tsk, Big Bird...

You left this out (though you left IN the reference to it in the subheadline)..."

Integrity, Timber?

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Tartarin wrote:

I'm glad the Right thinks it's outnumbered. It may well be -- much more than we on the left have dared to dream. The sleaziest voices on the right shout louder and are omnipresent in the media -- they don't even give a chance to moderate right and centrists. They've alienated whole sections of their own base. Still, it does mean they'll fight harder and even dirtier and we'd better be ready for it!

Conservatives are outnumbered only on the internet---and in particular on this thread.

Quote:
But I mean that about the new energy on the left. There's a benefit to having been in the wilderness for three years -- we know what we want and we know who we're fighting.

The only new energy on the left is produced by those activists on the internet which seems to have taken John Dean as their new Champion---Can you imagine that lefty as our Commander in Chief---At least Clinton knew where the military was located.

Quote:
When it comes to statements like "Now I admit that I refuse to debate each little point", I wonder what Perception's purpose is?Just peeking in and shouting epithets and then quickly withdrawing when statements are in dispute?

Tartar--I only came back to say hello to you and to wish you well :wink:
Epithets????---heaven forbid.

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All hat and no cattle, Perc. And a little wooden horse that goes up and down, up and down...

They're saying, Why here's Bush raising $170M and he isn't running against anyone in the primaries!

Wrong. Lieberman seems to have entered the Republican primaries...!

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Lieberman has a major point about Dean and the 'feeling' he's tapped into.

Blind anger.

Certainly its OK to be angry, misguided or not, but you can't govern with nothing but anger. He has very limited knowledge about foreign concerns, and no foreign policy. Just anger, and a horde of angry people behind him.

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A donkey is a great symbol for the Dems----they're getting all wrapped around the axel picking some DONKEY to run against a race horse.

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Projection, Sofia. It's the right which has been suffering from anger for 25 years or more and why its governance has been so poor. We've done better but you'd be right to have called us bewildered -- from the 2000 election up until recently. Bewildered at how to deal with damaging, deaf and blind anger on the right. Anger which leads the right to believe that their goal is so important that achieving it illegimately is no longer a problem. The left is changing. We've got a sense of ourselves back and the guts to deal with the WMD's who make up this administration.

Anger is a really very serious problem for America. The right has been in its clutches for so long that it's lost touch with reality and comity.

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AND the most plausible ---donkey---they have, Lieberman----sounds like a republican. I'm haveing the most laughs I've had since Johnny Carson

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Gelisgesti wrote:

One entry found for modulate.
Main Entry: mod·u·late
Pronunciation: 'mä-j&-"lAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing
Etymology: Latin modulatus, past participle of modulari to play, sing, from modulus small measure, rhythm, diminutive of modus measure -- more at METE
Date: 1615
transitive senses
1 : to tune to a key or pitch
2 : to adjust to or keep in proper measure or proportion : TEMPER
3 : to vary the amplitude, frequency, or phase of (a carrier wave or a light wave) for the transmission of intelligence (as by radio); also : to vary the velocity of electrons in an electron beam.

--------------------------------

One entry found for moderator.
Main Entry: mod·er·a·tor
Pronunciation: 'mä-d&-"rA-t&r
Function: noun
Date: circa 1560
1 : one who arbitrates : MEDIATOR
2 : one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion: as a : the presiding officer of a Presbyterian governing body b : the nonpartisan presiding officer of a town meeting c : the chairman of a discussion group3 : a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor
- mod·er·a·tor·ship /-"ship/ noun

---------------------------------------------

A fine line exist between the two ...... for what its worth.

Why, no, Gel, there is no dichotomy, the two are complimentary. While the established manner of this forum may be arbitrary, the purpose of establishing and enforcing them is to prevent uncontrolled chain reaction within discussions, thereby preventing meltdown. Would you prefer this thread's control rods be slammed down again, or that tempers be moderated and the discussion be refocused on the issues, and arguments, not the participants' perjorations of one another? A bit of tuning can go a long way toward assuring proper measure and proportion, and assuring the pitch does not become objectionably shrill.

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Most of the Dems running for President will find it hard to explain why they've gone along with George on Iraq, and tax cuts, only to criticise him later for it.

They shouldn't have waited until election season to be Dems...

Have any of them openly answered how they would proceed in Iraq?

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Good point Sofia----I guess it's just a matter of the Dems being----ALL HAT AND NO CATTLE. Very Happy

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Tartarin wrote:

Anger is a really very serious problem for America. The right has been in its clutches for so long that it's lost touch with reality and comity.

I would submit the oprobrious anger is confined neither to right nor left, but present equally in the extremes of both, neither of which have any concept of reality or comity. Lieberman and Bayh, among others, see risk the extreme wing of their party does it damage, not service, and they urge caution, temperance, probity and moderation. The Republicans learned a valuable lesson through their unfortunate experience with Goldwater; what is said often matters to an electorate far more than what is done. It would appear many Democrats have lost sight of that, to the peril of their party's agenda. Were such concerns not truly felt within the party, there would be no call for temperance and moderation, and no fear of repeats of 1952, 1972, and 1984. It should be remembered that Centrists far outnumber confirmed Liberals and confirmed Conservatives combined, and their numbers will favor the party least at odds with their sentiment.

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a
Sofia, if you would turn off Rush and pick up a paper you would know that several Dems have made suggestions, most notably Biden.
It was good to hear you suggest there may be a problem with the way Georgie is running the show

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It's the way the right fights that makes me sure they know they're losing, sooner or later. In the meantime, they'll have done one helluva lot of damage. I don't think this is a cute game and am getting kind of tired of those who do.

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Tartarin wrote:

Anger is a really very serious problem for America. The right has been in its clutches for so long that it's lost touch with reality and comity.

IMO anger is the most destructive emotion existing today and it is not without glee that I observe it destroying the Democratic party. I view it to be a relatively new phenomenon in the liberal camp. It started in the Clinton years because they were horrified that their hero (Clinton) was so maligned for a few little indescretions, coupled with a few lies. They got really angry even though their hero was guilty. Then when they perceived that the 2000 election was stolen---well that just added fuel to the fire---the anger has intensified into a forest fire---for those on the internet who have time for such nonsense.

The real enemies of this country, the liberal intellectuals are not angry( because they know that anger merely makes rational thought impossible), they are confused that the stupid public(they have nothing but disdain for the public) is not swallowing their line anymore. These two camps are at odds with each other and cannot form a coherant strategy to push the hated enemy from office. They can only hope he will self destruct but they are becoming panicky because he appears to be gaining strength and more in control.
This merely adds to the anger.

Rage on anger!! Very Happy

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I have observed that those most inconvenienced by the tactics of an opponent frequently are at strategic disadvantage to begin with.

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perception wrote:

The real enemies of this country, the liberal intellectuals ... ...

Because of the very real dangers of the ongoing war on terror, this raises difficult questions about how to balance the right to a fair trial against the government's duty to safeguard national security:
of course liberal intellecs should get capital punishment, but with a trial or just lynched, military court or perhaps civilian ... better not the latter: federal judges may be real enemies of the USA, too.

Isn't it too early for so many drinks, perception?

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Timber

It's called " Getting inside the enemies decision cycle". We owe John Boyd more than can be expressed.

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Walter

Naw---we're not going to let them get near any of our liberal judges---we will dress them in Burkas and turn them over to the Taliban.

Thanks though for your concern :wink:

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The US, UN & Iraq III

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