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The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2003 11:02 am
I'll leave you to your physical fantasies, George, and only say that "the women I know..."!

(PS. I once met Chris Reeve briefly. He has a pretty strong jaw as Superman. In person (this was back in the mid-'80's) he's a sweet, freckly-faced, jumbly sort of person.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2003 03:37 pm
I received this from a friend in the Land of Oz. c.i.
******************************************
re:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sectionindex2/0,5746,ausletters1^^TEXT,00.html

Max Henreich's bald assertions on the question of WMDs (Letters, 20/6) got me thinking. If, instead, the United States had invaded Iraq on the pretext of "liberating the Iraqi people", would the world have been more accepting of pre-emption? Let's look at the implications.

Suppose that there had been an overwhelming groundswell of world public opinion in support of liberation, brought about by an equally concerted (yet sound) campaign by the "coalition of the willing". Despite massive popular support, however, international diplomacy would certainly have opposed any intervention, simply because many governments would see it as potentially signing their own death warrants.

But, even if the cause proved universally popular, most people would have still remained deeply sceptical of American motives. Afterall, the United States is hardly known for sticking its neck out in the name of human rights. Indeed, its history of intervention in other nations' affairs proves quite the opposite: civil liberties are completely dispensible whenever American interests are threatened. Therefore, the age-old question would ring louder than ever: "What is the REAL reason?"

Further, as a rule the people of United States do not support risky foreign adventurism for "no good cause", that is, that which has no benefit to the U.S. itself. And without a cause, the lives of a thousand Iraqis would never have been worth one American life. Bush would never have even tried.

Finally, without the pretext of "self-defence", the United States could never have received United Nations endorsement to threaten another country, leave alone to invade it. National sovereignty has been a tenet of international law since the formation of nations.

To argue, therefore, that the outcome ("liberation") justifies the means (lying and deceit) is to totally ignore the reality of international politics. More seriously, it is an abuse of world public opinion and international law, and it has destroyed any lingering credibility the United States government may have had.

In short, what was done in Iraq can -- and will -- only be done the once. Now, given the Americans' proven record of lying to achieve their doubtful ends, the world cannot be expected to believe any claim the superpower might make in the future -- no matter the veracity of the claims or the level of threat. What then?

CM
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 11:03 am
Kara

Yes, the jaw/chin thing is very interesting...we seem to have a deep-seated biological response in the mix here. But of course it is terribly silly to assume that possessing a particular physical characteristic (tiny waist, short or tall stature, prominent chin, assymetrical boobs, hairy legs, big wang, etc) guarantees anything at all about a person other than possession of that feature. For example, though I have an enviably well developed and sculpted, though relatively hairless, chest and a muscular little bum, this provides others no warrant to assume I am also an imprudent manager of funds - though I am. All it really tells us is that I probably should avoid a prison stay.

george

ah ha! So we have been right about you all along. It's not JUST that you are Irish which establishes certain high-probability predictors, it is also that YOU LIKE SAILORS. Well, so does my daughter and so I feel personally closer to you now, but I'm not sure how the others here are going to respond.

Tartarin

Yes, what I know about sailing be fit into a space the size of a thimble, or Don Rumsfeld's heart, whichever is smaller.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 11:20 am
Naval Aviators: since having been a Navy Navigator, stationed several times in a harbour with Naval Airforce members, I've always thaught that they are toffee-nosed. That's something, I never thaught of being one of George's characters.

blatham

re closer: good chances for me, I suppose :wink:
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 11:40 am
Blatham,

Not only do I like sailors, I was one - happy years flying off carriers in both Atlantic and Pacific fleets. Well sculpted torsos and muscular bums were standard equipment, though far more often dedicated to chasing Svenska flickas in Palma and exotic beauties in Phouket.

I am surprised that a light hearted, self-deprecating, and fleeting reference to physical characteristics would excite such responses from so many. Ultimately I was referring to character traits - self confidence, the absence of pretense, direct, plain speech and logical thinking - that Rumsfeld exhibits, and which I admire, 'tho others here undoubtedly do not.

Walter, please explain, what is "toffee-nosed" ? What harbor? Were they Brits? Surely not U.S. Navy!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 11:45 am
George

Kiel, Germany.
"Toffee-nose" is English, British English, meaning "stuck-up", "snooty", "uppish" ...
I was referring to the German Navy Airforce - that's what they are (and the the only thing we had in common was the same uniform :wink: ).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:03 pm
Walter,

Well, since they were Naval Aviators, I can understand that !
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:06 pm
Snob Laughing
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:14 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Well sculpted torsos and muscular bums were standard equipment, though far more often dedicated to chasing Svenska flickas in Palma and exotic beauties in Phouket.


You're much more gay than you're even aware of, george.

I hope that doesn't come as a shock to you...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:15 pm
PDid, Good observation! LOL c.i.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:17 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Snob Laughing


LOL
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:30 pm
I prefer George as a "bi." I also like George because he's an easy tease!
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:32 pm
Besides, PDiddie, you're the one with an avatar celebrating W's pecs -- or is that an ill-fitting jersey?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 12:37 pm
PDiddie wrote:


You're much more gay than you're even aware of, george.

I hope that doesn't come as a shock to you...


I hope you don't believe that your moment of pop psychological 'analysis' was either unanticipated - or insightful or meaningful on your part. Moreover it betrays a certain odd narrow-minded character in your own point of view. You can't possibly know what I'm aware or not aware of, and I am surprised that you find the question relevant to anything here.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 01:11 pm
Come on, george, lighten up. We're just having a little fun at your expense. It's not pop psychology or anything of the kind; just a little jab for fun. c.i.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 01:14 pm
Cicerone,

Wise observations. Thanks.


OK Goddamit!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 01:22 pm
Cursing, George, used to be followed by some bucks to Coast Guard Auxiliary in my time :wink: .
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 01:56 pm
Walter,

True it is punished, but you will admit it is very nautical.


Cicerone, Tartarin, Pdiddie,

OK I have lightened up. I retract my previous answer to Pdiddie and replace it with,

"Well, I didn't say exclusively..."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 03:14 pm
It's getting downright chummy in here.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2003 03:34 pm
Just the way I enjoy A2K. Wink c.i.
0 Replies
 
 

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