The US, UN & Iraq III

the cloning from the left has been surpassed by the cloning from the right. both are equally dangerous. the knee-jerk liberal vs the knee-pad conservative.

the pinko commie vs the swashbuckling fascist

and i still lean to the left which seems to be into the winds of discontent.

I'm firmly entrenched to the left of middle and more middle all the time, maybe I'm Neo-Middle!

NOw what would we do without that First Amendment? So convenient, so handy, so disputed. All those who protest and criticize are also operating under First Amendment.

They just don't have the money and patriotism to back it mama!

I dont understand any of you. All of you are still whining about the people that get elected,but you are ignoring the fact that we get the leaders we deserve.
Remember what Thomas Jefferson wrote in the constitution..."just consent of the governed".
Now,if we allow any elected official to do anything,why are you complaining? If we refuse to elect the best people,we get the scoundrels we had in the last administration,and those in this one.
If we refuse to get involved,and only complain about what the other side is doing,then we deserve it.

Whining, yes... so much whining and copying and pasting of poorly conceived and badly delivered rhetoric, and then there's the occasional fit of pique when someone deigns to challenge them with facts...

It's only fun to watch if you keep reminding yourself they represent an infinitesimal minority.

that inifintesimal minority that had a plurality in the last presidential election.

Now, now, Dys... jes cuz people vote like you, doesn't mean they think like you.

If everyone who voted for Gore thought like you and most of the netizens of A2K, Bush would not have the approval ratings he has. (Nice try though.)

You've got a little point, mysteryman. Well, partly. Whining is a republican word. And a lot of us are active - just because you don't know about the activity doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Getting the leaders we deserve? Heard Sandra Day O'Connor tonight hedging about the Florida fiasco. Sounds like she's got some doubts. As most of us know, but many repubs deny, little george didn't exactly win, did he? Nobody deserves him.

And it's wonderful how he keeps insisting that the WMDs are there to be found. They must really be worried now about public opinion.

Listen, Bill, define patriotism. All those old draft dodgers wearing flag pins?

mama,I am not going to argue the 2000 election again,that is a dead issue.
I also know that there is plenty of activism out there,but what kind?

http://www.wacnyc.net/press.htm
Read this and tell me,is this positive activism,or just plain silliness? IMHO,its silliness.

What about the people that can complain about everything that this administration does,but dont offer any solutions of their own?
Dont tell me its broken unless you have an idea how to fix it.

mm

Actually, these threads are filled with alternate policy notions. But even if one doesn't have an immediate and easy solution to, say, campaign finance or the decimation of cod and other food fish, doesn't mean there is anything at all wrong about ringing the alarm bells.

Actually, it's pretty funny, and the New York Press carried this. And if you look at the New York Press (a free city paper) you'll note it's mostly satirical. Scream Out is a wonderful slogan - matches up against all those trillion repub sayings that are out there, and is much plainer and to the point.

Your last paragraph also happens to be something that's been worked to death.

Heard of MoveOn? If not, watch for it.

mm, The only way I know how to 'fix it' is to replace this whole dang administration with another one. I'll betcha dollars to donuts it'll be considerably better for everybody in this world. c.i.

Oh, wait. Sorry, MM, you're from Indiana, and probably not used to New York City humor.

I am not saying there is anything with ringing the alarm bells.I am saying that like the boy that cried wolf,ringing the bell for the wrong reasons will accomplish nothing.

I have seen so many silly alarms sounded about so many silly things,here are few samples...
http://www.nbc4.com/dietandfitness/2229083/detail.html
or this
http://www.naafa.org/documents/policies/activism.html

While I will agree that activism is sometimes needed,when you start sounding like chicken little,you make it hard for true activists to be taken seriously.

mm said:
I am not saying there is anything with ringing the alarm bells.I am saying that like the boy that cried wolf,ringing the bell for the wrong reasons will accomplish nothing.



Would that little boy's name have been Geoge?

possibly,but I was referring to anybody that cries wolf. The people that complained about logging and the spotted owl were found to be wrong,the people that complained about preservatives in food are being proven wrong (remember Meryl Streep and alydar?),the people that cried wolf about so many things have been proven wrong or discredited.On both sides of the spectrum.
That is what I am saying.

As for GWB andWMD,I personally believe he was right.Remember,the original list of WMD came from the UN inspectors,when they said they could not verify that Iraq had eliminated them. Also,I was there for both gulf wars,and I saw them used the first time,against his own people.My platoon captured a whole warehouse full the first time.
I do hope that there are no WMD,but IMHO,if Bush was lying he would have "discovered" some by now to cover his own butt.
Remember,Iraq is the size of Ca,and I can find thousands of places to hide something in CA where you couldnt find it.

And, mysteryman, so many have been proven right ie, the warnings about e. coli in hamburger due to bad processing methods and, the so-far all-time champ-- the effects of smoking or chewing tobacco. (Do you realize it took 100 years of crying out for health officials to start listening to the wolfers about tobacco? 100 years.) You aren't seriously saying we should shut up, are you? Let the producers of the things your children eat decide whats good for them. I sure what you mean is more care might be taken before putting out a press release.

Which brings me to the posts about lobbying and the First Amendment. Lobbying for commercial interests isn't protected speech, it's commercial speech, it's advertising at it's finest. It's pitting one business interest or a set of business interests against either another business interest, foreign or domestic or a social interest (Health, freedom, quality) or both. That's why lobbyists are already restricted in how they operate. I have to tell you I like the idea that lobbying ought to be a public affair (ads in newspapers I think was mentioned) but we already have that kind of thing.
'Call Congressman Bob Bowman and tell him you want him to vote for more protections for our drug makers against pesky lawsuits.'

===
Is it just me or does anyone else think that the news guys have gotten bored with Iraq? Has anyone seen a story on the present conditions in Bagdad, raw sewage going into the river, what per cent still without power or water etc.? Not enough bang/flash for a story?
====
Oh and yeah, MM, Saddam used that gas on his own people, though I don't think you were there to see that. And after he did that do you know what we did? Ronald Reagan recognized Saddam's government and established an embassy in Iraq, then he sent Don Rumsfeld there to arrange for Saddam to get anthrax, purely for research in animal diseases -yuh. So then your butt got sent there later, TWICE, to clean up this, our, mess. Somebody shoulda cried wolf on Ron about this, but we were too busy trying to find out how much he had paid the terrorists in bribes and weapons to get the hostages out of Lebanon.

==
Joe