Using "will" for persistent habit.

I'd say that this structural aspect is used in all dialects of English, M56.

That conditional use of "will" is a wee bit old fashioned.

Particularly for the nags and nail biters.

The contraction passes....

As for the rats, the usage isn't really conditional.

M56--

As I remarked earlier, this use of "will" is correct, but old fashioned.

I can't understand what sort of answer you're angling for.

Noddy24 wrote:

M56--

As I remarked earlier, this use of "will" is correct, but old fashioned.

I can't understand what sort of answer you're angling for.

I'm not angling for anything that you cannot provide. In my variant, the use of "will", in such a context, is not at all old-fashioned, so your comment doesn't hold water. It may be old-fashioned in the variants you are familiar with, but not in mine.

Even here, it is only a matter of formal register and genre that makes it sound odd to some people:

A) "It is the Holy Bible and if you will turn to Proverbs 22:29, the following quotation will..."

M-W online:
2 : the power of choosing or determining : WILL

In B), that same volition is not present. In fact, it's rather uncommon to use "If + will" in all dialects except for the volitional meaning.

Quote:

Yes, there are some doalects which do not use "will" for persistent habit or personal characteristics. Mine, BrEng, does use it in that way though.

<M-W online:r
2 : the power of choosing or determining : WILL>


Yes, but...


1. Used to indicate simple futurity: They will appear later. 2. Used to indicate likelihood or certainty: You will regret this. 3. Used to indicate willingness: Will you help me with this package? 4. Used to indicate requirement or command: You will report to me afterward. 5. Used to indicate intention: I will too if I feel like it. 6. Used to indicate customary or habitual action: People will talk. 7. Used to indicate capacity or ability: This metal will not crack under heavy pressure. 8. Used to indicate probability or expectation: That will be the messenger ringing.

<A1) If you keep nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves.>

I know, but I can use both that one and this: "If you will keep nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves." in my variant of English.

For speakers of my variant, the addition of "will" shows emphasis in the insistence of the person spoken to/about. That's just the way it is.

Synonymous would be:

If you insist on nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves.

Yes, but...


6. Used to indicate customary or habitual action: People will talk.

<A1) If you keep nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves.>

I know, but I can use both that one and this: "If you will keep nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves." in my variant of English.

For speakers of my variant, the addition of "will" shows emphasis in the insistence of the person spoken to/about. That's just the way it is.

Synonymous would be:

If you insist on nagging him, it's no wonder he gets up and leaves.

I agree with you on the emphatic aspect, M56 and I'm quite sure I noted that agreement in my last posting. But I'd say, that "If S will" is not the normal or usual collocation in any dialect of English. Would you agree on that?

JTT wrote:

I agree with you on the emphatic aspect, M56 and I'm quite sure I noted that agreement in my last posting. But I'd say, that "If S will" is not the normal or usual collocation in any dialect of English. Would you agree on that?

Not sure what you mean by the normal collocation. Quite a few dialects of English have the construction "If S will...". If yours doesn't, that may be the reason you cannot readily recognise it.

Google: 87,900,000 English pages for "if * will".

If you will all now take your places, we can begin.

M56 & McTag ~ In both your sentences, I feel it would be more natural to substitute 'would' for 'will'. Id est:

McTag: If you WOULD all now take your places, we can begin.

M56: If you WOULD only listen to me...

What do each of you think?