Questioner wrote:echi wrote:echi wrote:The whole idea of "rights" does appear to be a matter of opinion and preference, and I think there are enough reasons to not mistreat animals without having to rely on such concepts.
A stray dog apparently has no "rights".
Do I then have the right to skin it alive and set it on fire?
You're being purposefully obtuse. A stray dog is an animal, and as such is protected by the Curelty to Animals Acts.
No. I am trying to understand your reasoning. Are you concerned only with what is/isn't legal? That is hardly worth debating.
Your attempts at understanding my reasoning are akin to me throwing an apple at an old woman in an attempt to understand the stock market. There's no reasoning behind your attempt at understanding.
Allow me to restate my reasoning, hopefully in a clearer manner.
Animals, as a group (baring humans) do NOT have the capabilities of understanding anything so complicated as personal rights. Therefore, Animals as a group (barring humans) SHOULD not be given any. I say they shouldn't because they are incapable of acting/reacting to those rights as they have no concept of what a right is.
Now, you can throw in the 'brain dead patient' and 'baby' angles that you were attempting to pass off earlier, but the fact remains that these are both part of the HUMAN classification. As such, even though brain dead or unmatured they are BOTH, barring developmental setbacks and/or being dealt a bad genetic hand CAPABLE of understanding what their 'rights' mean to them.
You can bestow all the rights you want on a rock, yet since the rock does not understand that it has been given rights, your actions are pointless. Is any of this clearing it up for you?
Questioner wrote:Is any of this clearing it up for you?
Are you saying that because animals have no rights it is therefore okay to eat them?
Anybody here a member of PETA? I am.
People Eating Tasty Animals.
When the cows start marching in the street chanting "Don't eat me!" I'll put down my hamburger.
I'm actually crazy about PETA girls. Especially when they hold those nude protests on the sidewalk.
echi wrote:Questioner wrote:Is any of this clearing it up for you?
Are you saying that because animals have no rights it is therefore okay to eat them?
Yes. Though what I AM saying, and this ridiculous process of explaining it to you over and over, was not immediately centered around that conclusion.
Someone pass the garlic taters please!
Questioner--
Raise the level of respect when addressing me if you expect me to read your posts.
If you've had a difficult time explaining yourself, that is at least as much your problem as it is mine.
I usually get irritated when members disrespect a thread that I take seriously. But I just don't get the whole vegetarian thing. It's one thing to make a personal decision to not eat meat, but to get angry at everybody else for eating meat, that's just not normal. Human beings are a part of the food chain, It's not fun to think about animals being killed, but when it's for food it's just the natural cycle of life. It always will be and all of the crying from the vegans and the PETA groups are not going to change that.
You'll never sway the mainstream public to eliminate meat from their diet! It's just not realistic.
echi wrote:Questioner--
Raise the level of respect when addressing me if you expect me to read your posts.
If you've had a difficult time explaining yourself, that is at least as much your problem as it is mine.
Pardon?
Wasn't aware that I was being disrespectful. I AM slightly tired of repeating the same thing over and over. And you were the one that began questioning me about my stance, so I figured you'd want to make the effort to read my response to your questions.
But whatever, didn't mean to offer offense. At least not this time.
Questioner--
Apparently I picked-up on something that wasn't there. I apologize.
If you're interested in excuses, I haven't slept or eaten much in a couple days (because of a devil-woman). I have been trying to understand your arguments, but I am definitely not in top form.
echi wrote:I haven't slept or eaten much in a couple days.
It's that vegitarian diet. You need a nice big steak to get your strength up.
echi, I'm sorry about your sad news. If you want to dump you're welcome to do so on the Relationships board.
We'll get you back on the straight and narrow in no time :wink:
relationships
A study at our teeth will indicate that we are not structured to eat meat, but to eat vegetables. Our teeth and jaws are more similar to herbivores than carnivores. eg. humans have no canines for grasping and tearing prey food.
Human physiology will tell you that our intestines are long and winded up like herbivores (eg. cows) which gives more time in the digestion of fibre found in plants. Carnivores have much shorter intestines because meat is digested more quickly and is also decomposed fast in the open.
Refer to
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm for the whole resource article.
Hence, i disagree that nature intended for us to be carnivores.
wan wrote:A study at our teeth will indicate that we are not structured to eat meat, but to eat vegetables. Our teeth and jaws are more similar to herbivores than carnivores. eg. humans have no canines for grasping and tearing prey food.
Human physiology will tell you that our intestines are long and winded up like herbivores (eg. cows) which gives more time in the digestion of fibre found in plants. Carnivores have much shorter intestines because meat is digested more quickly and is also decomposed fast in the open.
Refer to
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm for the whole resource article.
Hence, i disagree that nature intended for us to be carnivores.
And you're partially correct.
We're omnivores, not carnivores.
If we are naturally omnivorous, why do we have to cook meat before we can eat it? Is it just to make it taste better, or what?
echi wrote:If we are naturally omnivorous, why do we have to cook meat before we can eat it? Is it just to make it taste better, or what?
Well, we don't 'have' to do so now. It's just preferred since the bacteria etc that can contaiminate meat that's been poorly butchered, cured, shipped, etc.
Also I think the preperation to be of little significance. You can cook the best looking steak in the world and a true herbivore wouldn't touch it even if it were starving.
I'm pretty sure that eating raw meat is a bad idea under any circumstances.
The starving herbivores? I don't know. I'll have to test that one out on my cousin's pet rabbit. What do you bet he takes a bite?
I guess the real reason I don't eat meat is that if you are a meat eater, that means you're an animal killer. I remember what it feels like to intentionally kill an animal. Anyone who says it feels good is a liar, and I don't mind saying so.
echi wrote:if you are a meat eater, that means you're an animal killer.
I disagree. When I eat meat, I am simply eating an animal that someone else has killed. There are people who wont eat fruit unless it has already fallen from the tree - so won't they eat fruit bought from a supermarket?
echi wrote:I'm pretty sure that eating raw meat is a bad idea under any circumstances.
What about sushi? Shellfish? Or steak tartare? Or a steak or burger cooked rare? Duck is horrible when it is cooked through. Lamb is best medium rare or it gets dry. Same with venison loin. I can go on and on.
I also garden, and I take great joy at the screams of the plants when I rip them out of the earth.
