a letter from Jesus !

Straw man, Momma - it isn't a case of "blame Christians of today for what Christians of the past have done". The point is that what "Christians" say and what Christianity does are well documented as bearing little relationship to one another.

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timberlandko wrote:

Straw man, Momma - it isn't a case of "blame Christians of today for what Christians of the past have done". The point is that what "Christians" say and what Christianity does are well documented as bearing little relationship to one another.

Timber, just how many Christians do you know that go out there and kill? How many Christians do you know that are just plain evil (maybe not the right word, but I am sure you get my drift.)?

The fact is, whenever it is pointed out by the Christians that post on these threads, that the Christianity we practice and believe in is NOT the Christianity that we are constantly being reminded of, it falls on deaf ears. If we do one little thing wrong, ZAP!, we are hypocrites.

Seriously, Timber, you are a very intelligent person. I think you are also a fair person. It's not a matter of persecution I am talking about. What I am talking about is a misconception.

I think the big problem is the Christians of today that are in the limelight are the ones you and others are talking about. But, what of the Christians that aren't in the limelight? The Christians that are out there actually following what Jesus says? You don't hear much about them.

Timber, I wouldn't hurt a flea. Well, okay, I kill fleas. I run a homeless cat shelter. But, what I am trying to say is, I can't stand the thought of hurting anyone's feelings much less physically harming them.

I sometimes let my anger get the better of me, yes, but I am working on that. But, I am nothing like the Christians in the Crusades or like Pat Robertson, et al. And quite honestly, I don't know that many that are and I live in the south, and believe me, here in Louisiana, it is mostly Christian. Yes, there are some that are the fanatics, but they are not the majority here.

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Still having trouble distinguising straw from substance, are ya Momma? The point is not what you or what any other Christian says, but rather the point is that history amply demonstrates that there is little relationship between what Christians say and what Christianity has done. Your unswerving, one-track protestation in this regard does nothing to bolster any portion of the proposition you champion; it does, however, serve admirably to validate the point I set forward.

Truly, the originator of the aphorism "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up" must have been refering to "Christians".

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Momma Angel wrote:

I think the big problem is the Christians of today that are in the limelight are the ones you and others are talking about. But, what of the Christians that aren't in the limelight? The Christians that are out there actually following what Jesus says? You don't hear much about them.

You don't hear much from them either, as they do not toot their own horn or force their beliefs upon others.

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Timber,

I do understand what you are saying, I really do. Yes, the history of Christianity is violent. But, that's not what the message of Christianity is about. The message is distorted by those that use God for violence.

Mesquite,

True, but I would guess that many of them are probably forcing their beliefs on you because they are going to vote for what they believe is right, just like I do. (I am not putting myself in anyone's boat here). I am just saying there will be those you don't hear about that will vote the same way I would.

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Ma doesn't get, probably never will.

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mesquite wrote:

Ma doesn't get, probably never will.

Mesquite,

I DO get it. I have said that I understand what Timber and others are saying about this. I get it! Just because I don't agree with every single thing someone says, does not mean I don't get it Idea

I am trying to carry the conversation a bit further. :wink:

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Momma Angel wrote:

I do understand what you are saying, I really do. Yes, the history of Christianity is violent. But, that's not what the message of Christianity is about. The message is distorted by those that use God for violence.

Christianity is piggy backed onto a Hebrew war God. The distortion is from those that try to pretend it is not. Violence is the norm not the exception from this or any other Abrahamic offshoot.

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mesquite wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
I do understand what you are saying, I really do. Yes, the history of Christianity is violent. But, that's not what the message of Christianity is about. The message is distorted by those that use God for violence.

Christianity is piggy backed onto a Hebrew war God. The distortion is from those that try to pretend it is not. Violence is the norm not the exception from this or any other Abrahamic offshoot.

Mesquite,

We have different understands of what God is. I gather that from what you post. You are welcome to your understanding. I prefer mine.

Who is pretending anything? Yes, God in the Old Testament was a harsh God. Some of us have tried to explain to you how there was a New Covenant with the coming of Christ. If you do not accept that, then you do not accept it.

But, do you think it's right to tell others that what they believe is not what they really believe?

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I suppose someone continually telling a Christian that they are wrong is akin trying to force their will and opinion onto said Christian.

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:wink:

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Intrepid wrote:

I suppose someone continually telling a Christian that they are wrong is akin trying to force their will and opinion onto said Christian.

So you are saying that expressing opinion in a voluntary discussion forum is the equivalent of forcing your religious view by legislating the restriction of others rights?

Just is case you may have missed the kind of "forcing their will" issue, that I am speaking of look here is a pointer. You will note that I even remarked on your absence. If you were not intentionally absent from that exchange, now is your chance to join in.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1726212#1726212

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mesquite wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
I suppose someone continually telling a Christian that they are wrong is akin trying to force their will and opinion onto said Christian.

So you are saying that expressing opinion in a voluntary discussion forum is the equivalent of forcing your religious view by legislating the restriction of others rights?

Just is case you may have missed the kind of "forcing their will" issue, that I am speaking of look here is a pointer. You will note that I even remarked on your absence. If you were not intentionally absent from that exchange, now is your chance to join in.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1726212#1726212

There is more than one way to impose your will onto others, don't you think? I think when it turns into a discussion that goes, "You're wrong." from either side, it is no longer a discussion. It is then imposing your beliefs.

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No, mesquite.... I am not saying that

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Momma Angel wrote:

There is more than one way to impose your will onto others, don't you think? I think when it turns into a discussion that goes, "You're wrong." from either side, it is no longer a discussion. It is then imposing your beliefs.

When your argument is bankrupt dodge and whine. If I tell someone they are wrong, I also tell them why.

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Momma Angel wrote:

There is more than one way to impose your will onto others, don't you think? I think when it turns into a discussion that goes, "You're wrong." from either side, it is no longer a discussion. It is then imposing your beliefs.

Sorry MA, but this is a ridiculous statement.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. Regardless of what you 'think' or 'feel' or 'believe', if you make the statement that the sky is pink with purple polka-dots you are plain wrong.

It's imposing nothing, it's correcting.

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If spirituality is a personal decision, how can you possibly tell them their wrong without infringing on their personal right to choose for themselves.

A dissenter has no leg to stand on. Let each one decide for himself.

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mesquite wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
There is more than one way to impose your will onto others, don't you think? I think when it turns into a discussion that goes, "You're wrong." from either side, it is no longer a discussion. It is then imposing your beliefs.

When your argument is bankrupt dodge and whine. If I tell someone they are wrong, I also tell them why.

Mesquite,

What's with this bee up your butt thing?

http://www.smileys.ws/smls/grinning/00000045.gif

I used to enjoy our conversations because you were not judgmental.

http://www.smileys.ws/smls/grinning/00000043.gif

What happened Question

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Questioner wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:

There is more than one way to impose your will onto others, don't you think? I think when it turns into a discussion that goes, "You're wrong." from either side, it is no longer a discussion. It is then imposing your beliefs.

Sorry MA, but this is a ridiculous statement.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. Regardless of what you 'think' or 'feel' or 'believe', if you make the statement that the sky is pink with purple polka-dots you are plain wrong.

It's imposing nothing, it's correcting.

Who decides who is right or wrong when it is an opinion... not a undisputable known fact?

i.e., you obviously have undisputable evidence that the sky is not pink with purple polka-dots.

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Questioner Wrote:

Quote:

Sorry MA, but this is a ridiculous statement.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. Regardless of what you 'think' or 'feel' or 'believe', if you make the statement that the sky is pink with purple polka-dots you are plain wrong.

It's imposing nothing, it's correcting.

So, if I disagree with someone else, I am wrong? Does that mean if Mesquite disagrees with me, he is wrong?

I don't look at it as who is right or wrong. I look at it as we have differing beliefs, views, etc.

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a letter from Jesus !

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