Define God

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Nah. I just thought it interesting that you personalized the word 'science'.

This is not entirely to be excluded. Science has some intelligence, for without intelligence it would not be science ... now, whether this is artificial intelligence (independent from us and autonomous intelligence) or natural intelligence (our intelligence represented in objective form) it is another issue.

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Intelligence, perhaps. But not sentience.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Because Eve ate the apple, she and all women are being punished.

If the 'apple' represents proneness to gay-extra-sense activities ... this punishment is too low for such vicious practices.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

I believe that GOD is almighty, the center of the universe, that voice that speaks to you when no one is listening. GOD is your spirit, your guide and your spiritual angel. I think that we are ought to take responsabilities for our own actions and always remember that we often ignore that little that speaks to us in time of trouble.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Think of God not as a "person" but as a "Law of the Universe" that holds everything together in perfect harmony. But if that law is broken by naughty humans, (such as by Eve disobeying God and eating that fruit) that natural harmony is disrupted and bad things happen.

If God is the Supreme Intelligence of the Universe, God does not operate at such intra-personal relations. This is as if when you are treating an ant nest to deal with the ants personally - which ant has stolen the grain from which and to reward 'the good ones' and to punish 'the bad ones'. The general idea of the Word of God is operating at much higher level.
Actually the texts of the Bible are not homogeneous. If all of them are the Word of God they should be homogeneous - the concepts and inferences there should match at any level of complexity and analysis: the IQ of the writer of one section should match the IQ of the writer of another section (within the statistical error) if these texts are dictated to the prophets by one and the same intelligent being; the level of generalization of one text should match the level of generalization of the other text; the attitude to the world should be one and the same in both of the texts; the 'style' of the Word of God should be one and the same throughout the whole Bible, etc.
The science dealing with this is called stylometry, and the tests should prove authorship of God over all the texts in the Bible presented to be the Word of God.
There are also some other techniques of analyzing texts for evidence of authenticity, like for example:
- the invariants in 'the Word of God';
- frequency of function words used by the Writer (God that speaks through the prophets);
- principle component analysis
- the genetic algorithms, used in AI, etc.
The genetic algorithm comprises a set of rules to be applied as verification test for comparison of two texts for authenticity, like for example:
- IF donkey is mentioned at least once in the text THEN this text most probably is NOT the Word of God;
- IF any action (or inaction) in the text is grounded on aspirations for money and power THEN this text most probably is NOT the Word of God;
- IF the level of generalization drops below the minimal allowable margin THEN this text most probably is NOT the Word of God;
- IF any text shows evidences of selfish and personal gains THEN this text most probably is NOT the Word of God, etc.

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@Herald,

While Romeo tries to depersonalize Jehovah, you attempt to make spiritual knowledge the domain of an intellectual priesthood. The bible was written for the least of us.

Note Matthew 11:25. I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

... you attempt to make spiritual knowledge the domain of an intellectual priesthood.

I don't have any such intentions ... I am just looking for the truth.
'And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free' {John, 8:32}
Aren't you curious at least which part of the Bible is authentic Word of God and which is forged?
All that we have at present is a set of heterogeneous texts full of contradictions with each other.
If there has been some rational message ... it is lost in the re-writings with the time.

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@Herald,

neologist wrote:

... you attempt to make spiritual knowledge the domain of an intellectual priesthood.

Herald wrote:

I don't have any such intentions ... I am just looking for the truth.
'And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free' {John, 8:32}
Aren't you curious at least which part of the Bible is authentic Word of God and which is forged?

I am of the opinion that If Jehovah could inspire the scriptures and have Paul claim their complete authenticity, He is certainly capable of eliminating the chance of forgery.

Herald wrote:

All that we have at present is a set of heterogeneous texts full of contradictions with each other.
If there has been some rational message ... it is lost in the re-writings with the time.

Are you unable to reconcile apparent contradictions?
That's common.
Name a few.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I am of the opinion that If Jehovah could inspire the scriptures and have Paul claim their complete authenticity, He is certainly capable of eliminating the chance of forgery.

What evidences do you have that ALL the scriptures are inspired by God? How can you distinguish which of them are inspired by God, and which by the Antichrist (personal greed, stupidity, aspirations for money and power, lack of scruples, etc.) ... and which by cross-cultural misunderstanding of the things?

neologist wrote:

Name a few.

God loves you (to infinity), and nevertheless He will send you in Hell in perpetuity (if you make some rough mistake, like for example not giving all your money to the Church Board in time). How does that happen?
Another is the question that we don't even know what does Salvation mean, whether it is for the Soul ... or for the human species, where is that Hell (and Heaven), etc.
The radio telescope has sought through the whole universe along all radio and non-radio frequencies, and the results are:
Nothing to report. Hell and Heaven not found.
Is this Afterlife part of the physical world (and hence tangible, and observable and detectable in any way) or is it part of the intangible world (in which case the super high temperature and sulfur vapors make no sense). What is 'burning and suffocating' in the intangible world supposed to mean, etc.

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Herald said:

Quote:

The radio telescope has sought through the whole universe along all radio and non-radio frequencies, and the results are:
Nothing to report. Hell and Heaven not found

Perhaps "aliens" have already been to earth.. Smile

Jesus said- "I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going....I am not of this world" (John 8:14/ 8:23)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/stargate-known-universe.gif~original

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@echi,

God cannot be defined in one word.

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@johnscouture,

That reminds me. Has anyone seen echi?

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@Herald,

neologist wrote:

I am of the opinion that If Jehovah could inspire the scriptures and have Paul claim their complete authenticity, He is certainly capable of eliminating the chance of forgery.

Herald wrote:

What evidences do you have that ALL the scriptures are inspired by God? How can you distinguish which of them are inspired by God, and which by the Antichrist (personal greed, stupidity, aspirations for money and power, lack of scruples, etc.) ... and which by cross-cultural misunderstanding of the things?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16 + additional citations available) Proof comes through study.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
I am of the opinion that If Jehovah could inspire the scriptures and have Paul claim their complete authenticity, He is certainly capable of eliminating the chance of forgery.
Herald wrote:
What evidences do you have that ALL the scriptures are inspired by God? How can you distinguish which of them are inspired by God, and which by the Antichrist (personal greed, stupidity, aspirations for money and power, lack of scruples, etc.) ... and which by cross-cultural misunderstanding of the things?
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16 + additional citations available) Proof comes through study.

I think you are kidding yourself about that.

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@Herald,

neologist wrote:

Name a few.{contradictions}

Herald wrote:

God loves you (to infinity), and nevertheless He will send you in Hell in perpetuity (if you make some rough mistake, like for example not giving all your money to the Church Board in time). How does that happen?.

The concept of eternal punishment is a pagan belief not supported by scripture. Just another straw man to this discussion.

Herald wrote:

Another is the question that we don't even know what does Salvation mean, whether it is for the Soul ... or for the human species, where is that Hell (and Heaven), etc.

Jehovah's purpose stated in Eden is for humans to live forever on earth. He has not changed his mind. Salvation for the majority of humans, including those who have already died, is to realize God's purpose either as Armageddon survivors or through the resurrection promised in John 5:28. The scriptures also tell of a small group who will experience heavenly life to assist Jesus in the oversight of earth in that time.

Herald wrote:

The radio telescope has sought through the whole universe along all radio and non-radio frequencies, and the results are:
Nothing to report. Hell and Heaven not found.. . . .

And that proves . . . . .?

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@Frank Apisa,

neologist wrote:

Proof comes through study

Frank Apisa wrote:

I think you are kidding yourself about that.

Well, I might have to use a stick. Smile

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

The concept of eternal punishment is a pagan belief not supported by scripture.

You are not sure about that. Without the imminent threat of the eternal punishment the salvation of our souls makes no sense (in the Christian religion).

neologist wrote:

Just another straw man to this discussion.

Heaven and Hell are in no way straw men - nether to the Christian religion, nor to any other religion, Buddhism for example (Zen - to be in peace with your soul).

neologist wrote:

Jehovah's purpose stated in Eden is for humans to live forever on earth.

So far so good.

neologist wrote:

Salvation for the majority of humans, including those who have already died ...

Just a second - you don't have any single piece of evidence that 'those who have already died' are saved and their souls continue to exist (in the tangible or intangible universe).

neologist wrote:

... is to realize God's purpose either as Armageddon survivors or through the resurrection promised in John 5:28.

You are speaking about survivors of the disaster drama (Armageddon), but you have no idea of how does this disaster look like.

neologist wrote:

And that proves . . . . .?{the data from the radio telescope}

... everything. If Heaven and Hell cannot be found in the physical world they are most probably something else.
Case 1: Heaven and Hell exist in the intangible universe ... where no punishment can be imposed for the souls will not perceive or sense it.
Case 2: Heaven and Hell do not exist, or even if they exist they are out of range (not only of the radio telescope).
Case 3: Heaven and Hell are the future of the life on the Earth, and in particular of our species. The Armageddon is the constraints of the resources and the struggle for survival.
Case 4: Heaven and Hell are something else, beyond our understanding of the world.

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@Herald,

neologist wrote:

The concept of eternal punishment is a pagan belief not supported by scripture.

Herald wrote:

You are not sure about that. Without the imminent threat of the eternal punishment the salvation of our souls makes no sense (in the Christian religion).

You are speaking of nominal christianity. I am talking about the faith described in the Bible.

Why is there no eternal punishment?
2 good reasons:
1] Because the consequence for sin is death "For the wages sin pays is death, " (Romans 6:23)
2] Jehovah told Adam and Eve the very same thing in the Garden of Eden, so we are assured He did not change his mind and add something more.

Who goes to heaven?
God has selected a group by means of the New Covenant who will rule with him in heaven over the earth. (Revelation 5:10)

I can continue to provide citations for these if needed

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

The concept of eternal punishment is a pagan belief not supported by scripture.

You gotta be careful there, Neo. The entire concept of gods...and of gods impacting on the world and the human predicament....is derived from pagan belief.

Once you start throwing out the stuff that started as a result of "pagan belief"...you are not left with a hell of a lot of anything. Wink

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Because the consequence for sin is death

All people die ... sooner or later ... with or without sins. Death is the logical ending of the biological amortization of the tissues ... and has nothing to do with sins.

neologist wrote:

Who goes to heaven?

Nobody ... for now. The Earth is driving fast forward to Hell ... and when we destroy our environment (as it will) there will be no Heaven where to go.

neologist wrote:

God has selected a group ...

When, how ... and who is in and who out?
You are citing texts that have been neither verified (for authenticity as the Word of God), nor validated (as logical constructs).

1 Reply

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