Define God

@cicerone imposter,

I once sat down with Dawkins book "Climbing Mount Improbable" to get a serious modern view of science and evolution, but couldn't stop chuckling every time I turned each page!
Time and again he uses phrases like "It is possible that"..."It may be that"..."We can speculate that".."We can imagine that"..etc!
In other words it's not a proper scientific explanation of evolution at all, it's just a collection of guesses and hunches and missing links.
After reading it, I honestly thought Dawkins was bananas or devil-posessed or something.. Smile

http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/dawkins_satan_possessed.htm

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Your formula can be based on "garbage in, garbage out." I wouldn't know, and don't care. There are people who can agree or refute your formula. I just don't trust one person's opinion on most things. That you even bothered to present your formula is laughable at best.

Which formula are you talking about. These equations (1) - (10) are from the formal model of Einsteins General Relativity Theory ... that you present yourself to know perfectly ... after discussing it with such an ease.
I am very flattered that you confused the formal model of the general relativity with 'my formula' that may be based ... let me see how was that - "garbage in, garbage out."
Do you know what is this example showing: it shows that you don't understand anything of the general relativity (just like me) but unlike you I don't talk with an ease about things I don't understand.
What about the 'truth' claims? Can you make a belief revision math of anything - the Bible for example.
What are the math truth values of these famous quotes:
- I am the Lord your God
- God is not God of the dead, but of the leaving
- I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
- I am the bread that came down from heaven
- I am the living bread that came down from heaven: if any man eat from this bread he shall live for ever ...
- I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
... and what is the most plausible interpretation of these.
Pay attention that when self-defining in the Word of God, God does not talk about donkeys ... or about anything of the kind:
- I am the omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being of the universe that not only intends to be your personal baby sitter ... and to deal with your personal problems to the end of the days, but also my Word is indended to destroy beyond any doubt any suspicions about my abilities, presence and academic status.

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@Herald,

I see what your problem is; you believe in the fictional god created by men some 2,000 years ago.

That you didn't credit Einstein for the formula is your problem, not mine. When you post anything in a public forum, it's good practice to give credit to anything you quote. Otherwise, people reading your post assumes you are the author.

Simple courtesies goes a long ways.

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

. . . God is not God of the dead, but of the leaving . . .(sic)

Mark and Luke were able to get this right. Please try a little harder to proof read your posts. Use the preview function.

All those who have died and are in God's memory are considered to be alive. We can be certain to see Abraham again. Can you imagine the stories he will be able to relate? He, and so many others.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I see what your problem is; you believe in the fictional god created by men some 2,000 years ago. . .

Jesus' name means "Jehovah's Salvation", So the worship goes back to the time Jehovah created humans about 6000 years ago.

1 Reply

@neologist,

You have that in reverse; a god can't create itself, then claim he was worshiped since the beginning of bible time.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Jews understood the death of the soul (nephesh) as noted in Ezekiel 18:4, to be cessation of consciousness. The concept of an immortal soul lies in the distorted meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” coming primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from the pagan philosophy of the Greeks.

The New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew, let alone English, though. It was written in Koine Greek by Hellenic Jews and or Gentiles with words whose meanings are steeped in Hellenic culture. Their meanings cannot be divorced from the culture from which they sprang.

The English word "soul" used to translate the Hebrew word "nephesh" has the idea of an immaterial animating principle in humans, as well. The idea that this meaning is popularly distorted is foolish. It derives from the word "sawol" in Old English, the language of the Anglo-Saxons who also held ideas of an immaterial, immortal animating principle, and which pre-dated Christianity.

neologist wrote:

It is understandable that folks would hold to the idea of immortality, since, of all the animals, humans alone seem capable of realizing indefinite time. That, in itself, does not disprove mortality.

And in turn, your cites of passages about the Hebrew word nephesh don't disprove the ideas of immortality behind the Greek words nekros and thanatos.

neologist wrote:

I put the citation about hellfire in there to remind RF that God does not contemplate the kind of torture humans often inflict on other humans. So, how could he allow humans to suffer infinite torture for sins that are finite?

One thing about your cite in Jeremiah is human sacrifice, another thing is the idea of infinite torture. You're conflating the two things. The Bible is rife with references to God inflicting death upon multitudes of peoples including his own followers. Simply look at how he ordered the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I don't have an answer to your question about how God could allow humans to suffer infinite torture for sins that are finite. Some people don't see anything incongruent about it.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You have that in reverse; a god can't create itself, then claim he was worshiped since the beginning of bible time.

I assumed an affirmative answer to this post: http://able2know.org/topic/64673-89#post-5471521
You mean I was wrong?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

I got that impression Romeo with about half a page of the drivel. So I never bothered with any more.

I pride myself on being able to identify a book worth bothering with by reading a couple of paragraphs.

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@InfraBlue,

I have to go with the understanding I derive from the following observations

1] God did said nothing about any punishment other than death, an event Adam and Eve had no doubt seen in animals if it were to have any meaning. His words in Genesis show that His purpose was for our parents to continue living and and extend Eden throughout the earth. Nowhere does it indicate that He changed his mind about the human race when they ate the fruit.
2] There are numerous citations available from the Hebrew texts identifying the state of those who have died.Including the hope of resurrection (Job 14:14,15)
3] Resurrection of righteous and unrighteous noted at John 5:28 and Acts 34:15.
4] Death is regarded as an enemy which will be brought to nothing (1 Corinthians 15:26)

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@neologist,

Whoa!

Quote:

1] God did said nothing about any punishment other than death, an event Adam and Eve had no doubt seen in animals if it were to have any meaning.

What sins did animals commit to deserve the same hell as humans? Did they also eat apples?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I wrote:

1] God did said nothing about any punishment other than death, an event Adam and Eve had no doubt seen in animals if it were to have any meaning.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Whoa!

What sins did animals commit to deserve the same hell as humans? Did they also eat apples?

Please read carefully, CI. I know you are smarter than that.
First of all, there is no eternal punishment of 'hell'. And, I have never said there was.
Also, unless you have led a sheltered life, I assume you have seen animals die. If not, I can send you info about where your hamburger comes from if you ask.

1 Reply

@neologist,

The subject is 'death.' Hell by any other name....?" For some people; eternal death is the hell.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The subject is 'death.' Hell by any other name....?" For some people; eternal death is the hell.

Are you saying you believe death is not eternal?

Wait! I hear something in the laundry room.
Yeah!
Wishy washy. Wishy washy.

1 Reply

@neologist,

You must prove where my wishy washy is. Otherwise, it's just dirty laundry that your throwing out without any reason.

You're arriving at conclusions I have never stated. Show me?

1 Reply

Cicerone said:

Quote:

What sins did animals commit to deserve the same hell as humans? Did they also eat apples?

Who says animals go to hell? The Bible doesn't say that as far as i know.. Smile

Here are a few verses about animals-
Jesus said:-"God won't forget the death of a sparrow" (Matt 10:29)
"God.. in whose hand is the soul of every living thing" (Job 12:10 KJV)
God said:-"Every animal of the forest is MINE, and the cattle on a thousand hills. I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are MINE, for the world is MINE, and all that is in it" (Psalm 50 10-12)

And this interesting quote is not in the Bible, I forget where I saw it-
"Of all God's creatures, only Man prays, or has need to"

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You must prove where my wishy washy is. Otherwise, it's just dirty laundry that your throwing out without any reason.

You're arriving at conclusions I have never stated. Show me?

Wait!?
You are arriving at conclusions I never started.
You did it first!

Nah, nah, nah, yah, nah!

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I see what your problem is; you believe in the fictional god created by men some 2,000 years ago.

Belief revision is a technique of the math logic to verify and validate statements by assigning truth valie to them, usually my means of probability (ranging from 0-false to 1-true). The belief may also have some highly improbable (but still possible to be true) values, like for example 10^-12.

cicerone imposter wrote:

That you didn't credit Einstein for the formula is your problem, not mine. When you post anything in a public forum, it's good practice to give credit to anything you quote. Otherwise, people reading your post assumes you are the author.

I am awfully sorry that you haven't known that Einstein is the author of the General Relativity Theory ... and that 'people reading your post assume you are the author'.

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@Herald,

Your attempts to use logic to prove god belongs on the laffer curve. CLUE: That's an oxymoron. You can't prove something with logic that doesn't exist.

Quote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
That you didn't credit Einstein for the formula is your problem, not mine. When you post anything in a public forum, it's good practice to give credit to anything you quote. Otherwise, people reading your post assumes you are the author.

You wrote,
Quote:
I am awfully sorry that you haven't known that Einstein is the author of the General Relativity Theory ... and that 'people reading your post assume you are the author'.

You're not making any sense. Is English your second language?

1 Reply

@neologist,

RE: God is not God of the dead, but of the living
First sorry for the typo.
The interpretation you are giving is only one ... of the many.
If we assume for this to be true (assign to it belief with truth value above 51%, by heuristics) that will mean that it is really the Word of God (message sent by a being existing objectively outside our conscience) and it is not result of the slack imagination of the prophets ... this may have some other plausible interpretations.
'The messages from the Word of God concern the living, here down on the Earth ... and not the dead and the saving of their souls ... and their resurrection for eternal life or whatever'
In any case this message is much different from some other, like for example the story of Abraham and the donkey.
It is different at level of reasoning, it concerns the whole mankind rather than arranging some inter-personal relations (between God ... and the personal complexes of the local retards at the local pub).
It is different as perspective in time, it is different as level of reasoning and attitude to the world ... and most probably it is based on different understanding of the world.

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