queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:48 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
From Brandon's New World Dictionary:

I am an atheist, but to me, the word God denotes an all-powerful being, personally responsible for the creation of the universe, and capable of speaking to any person either within that person's mind, or aloud using sound, should he choose to.

I, personally, would have found that defintion to be unbelievable, at least the part that starts 'and capable...'
I would have once said nonsense! God, I can believe in. But speaking to me in my mind?!!? Ridiculous.

Imagine my surprise one day when I realized such a crazy thing was true--and not only in the life of a crazy person. Because I know I am not crazy, but I also know my own inner voice quite well. Very Happy

As far as talking out loud, though, I guess it is certainly possible, now that I realize I am not qualified to judge what is possible and what isn't. But I remain skeptical of any one claiming actual verbal communication from God. That is, the kind that requires voicebox and tongue for articulation. That, to me, defies possibility by making God into a man.
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 03:04 pm
queen annie wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
From Brandon's New World Dictionary:

I am an atheist, but to me, the word God denotes an all-powerful being, personally responsible for the creation of the universe, and capable of speaking to any person either within that person's mind, or aloud using sound, should he choose to.

I, personally, would have found that defintion to be unbelievable, at least the part that starts 'and capable...'
I would have once said nonsense! God, I can believe in. But speaking to me in my mind?!!? Ridiculous.

Imagine my surprise one day when I realized such a crazy thing was true--and not only in the life of a crazy person. Because I know I am not crazy, but I also know my own inner voice quite well. Very Happy

As far as talking out loud, though, I guess it is certainly possible, now that I realize I am not qualified to judge what is possible and what isn't. But I remain skeptical of any one claiming actual verbal communication from God. That is, the kind that requires voicebox and tongue for articulation. That, to me, defies possibility by making God into a man.


Didn't Jesus talk out loud?

Smile

I
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 03:33 pm
Implicator wrote:

Didn't Jesus talk out loud?

It would seem that yes, He did. I believe his last words were 'It is finished.'

However, I see no reason to feel that He still does. If I saw some sort of apparition, vision, or even person, who declared itself to be Jesus, I would say:

'What time did you get up? Because it wasn't early enough!'

People are masters of self-deception. The thing about it, though, is our deceptions are limited by what we believe, IMO. I don't think that our beliefs, by necessity, define our possibilities. That is, if our belief is the type that remains undefined and undetermined by what we decide to allow ourselves to believe. I really don't say that I believe in anything. Because what I believe is only because somehow it made itself known to me, and the rest I leave open. The way I see it, most people confuse 'beliefs' with choosing what seems to a valid opinion or possibility.

A true belief is not a choice, but an understanding that arises from some sort of experience. Faith is not belief. Hope is not belief. Belief is personal knowledge that is convincing and useful yet never complete and totally dependable or unchanging.

Most think that because it makes sense to their way of thinking and works as therapy to soothe their inner beast, that it is something they can believe in. That is why so many seem willing to consider anything other than what they already 'believe.' If they are open to something other than what they have already padded themselves with, there might be a few moments of discomfort in the transition. And discomfort is how fear feels if it is a constant inhabitant of the self.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:28 pm
echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
The definition of the Hebrew word Jehovah, or Yawheh, is 'He causes to become', itself a name inspiring contemplation of the universe.

Fits my mind perfectly (well, except for the "He" part).
Sexist! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:29 pm
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
The definition of the Hebrew word Jehovah, or Yawheh, is 'He causes to become', itself a name inspiring contemplation of the universe.

Fits my mind perfectly (well, except for the "He" part).
Sexist! Laughing

Neo!

I've never heard you use such language! Shocked I am in shock! Shocked
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:38 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
From Brandon's New World Dictionary:

I am an atheist, but to me, the word God denotes an all-powerful being, personally responsible for the creation of the universe, and capable of speaking to any person either within that person's mind, or aloud using sound, should he choose to.
Thanks, Brandon. Now that you have given us a definition, would you care to elaborate on why you do not believe?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:41 pm
Neo,

You know I was joking, right? Laughing
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:53 pm
fresco wrote:
JLN + Phoenix,

Thank you for your support. I'm pretty sure theists never consider that they might have a deleterious effect on all of us. Pessimistically, I don't think the day will yet dawn when colateral effects of religion are compared with "passive smoking".
Not all 'theists' believe that religion has benefitted mankind.

Denis Diderot wrote:
Mankind will never be truly free until the last king has been strangled with entrails of the last priest.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:54 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Neo,

You know I was joking, right? Laughing
Pretty much floored me, MA!
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 10:25 pm
queen annie wrote:
Implicator wrote:

Didn't Jesus talk out loud?

It would seem that yes, He did. I believe his last words were 'It is finished.'

However, I see no reason to feel that He still does.


I wasn't questioning whether or not God still speaks in human voice - I was pointing out that your apparent reason for not believing it to be possible was that it would "defy possibility by making God into a man". Yet if you happen to believe the Bible, then you would believe it is possible that God could be made into a man (at least in some sense), as Jesus lived and spoke here on this earth.

IOW, I wasn't questioning your conclusion - I was simply pointing out the apparent contradictions in how you arrived at it.

I
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:22 am
If Jesus is God, an assertion unsupported by scripture.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:38 am
who is God? A being who can kick your ass at will..... so watch your mouth.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:50 pm
Neo,

You don't think scripture supports the fact that Jesus is God? Could you elaborate?
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 05:36 pm
Implicator wrote:


I wasn't questioning whether or not God still speaks in human voice - I was pointing out that your apparent reason for not believing it to be possible was that it would "defy possibility by making God into a man". Yet if you happen to believe the Bible, then you would believe it is possible that God could be made into a man (at least in some sense), as Jesus lived and spoke here on this earth.

IOW, I wasn't questioning your conclusion - I was simply pointing out the apparent contradictions in how you arrived at it.

I

I see, forgive my little foray, then.

Personally, I don't hold with the idea that Jesus was 'God made into a man.' I think that He was a human who was invested with the full nature of God's character--or the Holy Spirit. Not all of God--that surely would be impossible to fit inside any human. But my conceptions of the inconceivable are that God is pure Spirit and man is a Material being. The two are opposites but are not conflicting. And so Jesus was a man with all aspects of the Spirit being the source of His animation (life.) Our souls are
animated by 'the breath of God.' But His soul was the Spirit of God. We form the characters of our souls as we live, but His was basically already formed and decided.

Since it is written He was the 'first begotten of the dead' then that means He could not have been God made into a man, because God is alive and all men are born dead (spiritually).

As far as Jesus's words being God actually speaking, I would have to say that in that respect, Jesus was actually the highest of the prophets--the only pure one. He was a mouthpiece for God, but He was not God with a mouth.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 09:03 pm
Queen Annie,

Then how do you account for His name being called Emmanuel? Which means God with us.
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 11:02 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Queen Annie,

Then how do you account for His name being called Emmanuel? Which means God with us.


Actually, it is Immanuel,with an 'I,' and it doesn't mean God 'among' us--it means more like 'God is on our side, God's strength is our strength.'

http://queen-annie.net/alephbet/immanuel.png
It is made of two words:

'im' which means:
with (that is, in conjunction with), in varied applications; specifically equally with; - accompanying, against, beside, by (reason of), for all, with.

And

'el' which means:
strength; power; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty

and which is actually a shortened from of 'ayil' which means:
properly strength; hence anything strong; specifically a chief (politically); also a ram (from his strength); a pilaster (as a strong support); an oak or other strong tree: - mighty (man), lintel, oak, post, ram, tree.

'Among' is 'tavek.'

So it is not exactly 'God is walking amongst us as a man.' Although, through the life and then death of Christ--remember He 'gave up the ghost' at the moment He died--that the Holy Spirit came to be sent to us and that is the root of the idea of God being among us, as our strength and pillar.

From God the Father came Christ the Son, and through the death of Christ came the Holy Spirit. That is why the trinity creed is misleading--they are not 'three equal persons' but rather a family of generations, yet indeed they are united.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 09:34 am
Jesus name means 'Jehovah's Salvation'

Real life and I had a knock em down & drag em out discussion over this here: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1323028#1323028

He had some good points. But, of course, he was incorrect. Laughing
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 02:21 pm
Right. 'Yehoshua' is Yhvh (yod he vav he) saves.
Yeshua is not correct, because it leaves out the last 'he' in the Tetragrammaton.

Immanuel was actually the name of Isiaiah's son, and the prophecy is actually primary toward the 'shadow' of the 'substance' on the topic of Israel's salvation.

I'm sure you get what I'm saying, Neo, even if my wording isn't that clear. It's a 'hard saying.' Especially for me.
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 02:43 pm
You and I are much of the same understanding, Neo, in regard to who God is and who the Son is and what it all means. From what I read on that other thread.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 04:03 pm
If the trinity doctrine was truth, the Athanasian Creed would be a part of the bible.
0 Replies
 
 

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