The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism

Friendly Fascism? What on earth is that? Is that anything like namby-pamby Nazism or Trifling Tyranny?

Well, amigo can help me out here as well, I guess, since he also mentioned it, but it's big business and big government combining forces to exploit and manipulate the population by appealing to nationalism (lots of flag waving), chauvinism and militarism. It relies heavily on misinformation and propaganda to instill fear in the middle class, and thus, control. It's history repeating itself because Bush doesn't read history.

Read the thread (written very well) about: Rethinking fascism, freedom. -Bush et al aren't very original, are they?

nationalism, Chauvinism and flag waving?

That's ridiculous!!!! Didn't you know that President Bush only has a 38% approval rating??

The moridbund kitty cannot argue without lies and strawmen . . .



Ah, but that was then, and this is now . . .



At no time did i in any way suggest or state that i did not know why Italmassamortgato contended the list was "bogus." The putrid feline now ignores the crucial fact that its original statement describes racism as the crucial first principle of fascism. My response to all of Italmassamortgato's horsie poop has been, and remains that racism is not a necessary component of fascism, and i have specifically made the comment that: " by no description of fascists can one reasonably make a blanket statement that racism is an a priori requisite of fascism . . . "

It galls the putrescent feline so much to be contradicted, that it finds it necessary to alter it's own statements and my statements in order to create strawmen which it can then savage.

It makes itself look ever more the fool as it wanders farther and farther both from the statements which can easily be checked in this thread, as well as the reality of the world in which it finds itself . . .

Setanta is Angry!!!! Such name calling!!!

He is, however, wrong.

If he would bother to access the Manifesto della Razza( translated as MANIFEST OF THE RACISTS), he would indeed find that the Fascists were Racists. The publication itself is called "The Manifest of the Race"

As to the comment that the Fascist Ideology did not NEED racism as a part of its philosophy, that may be so at the beginning,but it is clear, when the MANIFESTS OF THE RACISTS is examined that the Italian Fascists did indeed indulge in RACISM.

What else would you call the expulsion of all JEWS from the schools and universities in Italy in 1938?

Did the framers of the US Constitution need RACISM as a part of their philosophy? They did not. Were many of our founding fathers RACIST?

Of course.

Ideology grows. It does not remain stagnant. It is revised and enlarged.

The Italian FAscists enlarged their ideology to include Racism.

A TRANSLATION OF THE MANIFESTO DELLA RAZZA CAN BE EASILY FOUND THROUGH GOOGLE..TYPE IN MANIFESTO DELLA RAZZA.

Where to begin with the moribund feline . . . I'm not angry, but i see you are shouting again.

In fact, racism is enshrined in the United States Constitution--it was there from the day one.

This statement: "The Italian FAscists enlarged their ideology to include Racism." is a direct contradiction of this statement: "Racism. How could the author have missed that? That is the primal sin from which all others flow."

Hoist on your own petard, kitty corpse . . .

Fascism
I think the dictionary definition of fascism will help put a focus on what is emphasized under fascism.

FASCES, noun, plural, a bundle of rods bound about an ax with projecting blade, carried before ancient magistrates as as a symbol of authority: later the symbol of Italian fascism. This would seem to imply that the basic element of fascism is authority.

From my doctoral dissertation:

"Fascism, like Nazism, is an elusive concept. In contrast, although
Communism has heresies and deviations, unlike fascism, it does have
a single intellectual source with a proclaimed dogma. Fascim has no agreed-upon prophets. Its origins are plural, divergent, imprecise."

In Three Faces of Fascism, Ernst Nolte stresses that while fascism cannot br viewed simply as anti-communist, it would be inaccurate to define it without that basic criterion.

When Nolte applies his definiion of Fascism to National Socialism,
he starts with "The Background: The Race Doctrine." He is referring to a branch of European thought which had devloped about 1890 and was an anthropological view of history. The importance of racialism in Nazi ideology is stressed by nearly all of the studies on Nazism encountered.

The centrality of fanatical and irrational anti-Semitism can be observed by he fact that the death camps were operating up to the end of the war during a time when there were pressing military needs for such things as preciou freight space and armament workers. The extermination of the Jews has been referred to an outgrowth of "biologistic insanity of Nazi ideology."


So, the point of all this is, that in the USA there are no groups the US proto-fascists can identify as being to blame for every wrong percieved.

I used to lecture on the subject of Nazism/Fascism. Afterword, we would have a discussion. Invariably, the first question was "Can it happen here?" I always said that if we ever turned into a facsist state we would'nt see it coming. Because it would come under our own home-grown brand. (Isn't there a crazy long-haired woman going around, calling for the death of all liberals)

Ann(thrax) Coulter

Beautiful, Billy Falcon, beautiful.

"Fascism has no agreed upon prophets. Its origins are plural, divergent, imprecise"

In Laura Fermi's book, "Mussolini", she quotes him--"Fascism rejects the absurd conventional lie of political equality..equality is "antinatural and antihistorical"

A racist's creed.

Compassionate Conservatism

You're hilarious, dead kitty . . . you'd go down with the ship rather than admit to your own idiotic statements . . .

I am told that racism is enshrined in the US Constitution and was there from day one.

I do not wish to be literal, but since I have run across, "emanations and penumbras", I must be shown the word "racism" in our Constitution. I can't find it. I am sure that someone can transmute some of our founding fathers' words into racism. Why not? Supreme Court Justice Douglas found privacy by looking into "penumbras formed by emanations"

The first paragraph of Article I, Section 9, of the United States Constitution reads:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The word "Person" as used here means slaves--this passage refers to the slave trade. I'm sure you'll deny that, as inconvenient to your sneer--but it is a contention more firmly grounded in history than Billy Falcon's idiosyncratic view of fascim.

The third paragraph of Section 2, Article IV of the United States Constitution reads:

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Once again, "Person" refers to slaves. And, once again, that truth is better historically founded than your silly contortions trying to prove an unsupportable statement you made about racism and fascism when you were spouting off without thinking.

The third paragraph of Section 2, Article I, reads, in part:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Once again, "all other Persons" refers to slaves, as is made more evident in this passage than any other such passage by that usage having been predeeded by "the whole number of free Persons."

So yes, Italmassagmortgato, on a far better basis than you have asserted any of your nonsense, i assert that racism is enshrined the United States Constitution, from the very beginning.

Setanta,

"Racism is not an apriori requisite of fascism."

Just want to give another fact about racism and a brief

THE OFFICIAL PROGRAM OF THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST
WORKERS PARTY PROCLAIMED IN 1920.
(There were 25 demands made)

#4. Only a racial comrade can be a citizen. Only a person
of Geman blood, irrespective of religious denomination,
can be a comrade. No Jew, therefore, can be a racial
comrade.

No racism here, eh?

A full discussion of "volk' and "vokisch" as a background
would be useful at some time.

Last, a quote from one of the most penetrating books on the subject I'm aware of:

"Anatomy of the SS state" Krausnick

The foreword to this book provides a helpful guideline to investigating Nazism. It says there are two predominant views of the Third Reich. The first view sums it up with the word Auschwitz and does not go beyond the stark fact that it happened. Tnhe question of how and why it ocurred is answered with "generalized mooral and cultural philosophising" and leaves out the intellectual and political background. The second view sees the events as the crimes of a misquided body of men who had no place in the mainstream of German history of the period."
Both views lack insight and "fail to see the connection between the form of political thyranny adopted and the mass crime called for by its ideology."

I hope these items are less "idiosyncratic."

It is more than a little idiosyncratic to describe National Socialism as Fascism. Nowhere in my remarks have i equated, nor do i consider, the National Socialist German Workers Party to be either a fascist organization, nor foundational to fascism. Therefore, whether you say, or Italmassamortgato says it, i consider it ludicrous to contend that racism is an a priori requisite of fascism.

I am very much afraid, Billy Falcon, that although you have done a dissertation on Fascism, Setanta knows more about it than you do. Why? Well, he is Setanta!!

Even though you take pains to explain:

"Fascism has no agreed upon prophets. Its origins are plural, divergent, imprecise"

And even though Laura Fermi wrote in her book-"Mussolini"--she quotes from the writings of Mussolini who, I AM SURE, was NOT one of the original ideologues who founded Italian Fascism. Oh, no, he was a tool. Of whom? Perhaps Gabriello D' Annunzio?

Mussolini wrote:

"There exists by now, a pure Italian race...the conception of racialism in Italy must be essentially Italian and with a nothern-Arayn direction...Jews do not belong to the Italian race."

Now, the "erudite" Setanta insists that RACISM IS NOT A PRIORI REQUISITE OF FASCISM.

First of all, I am sure that Setanta must be referring to Italian Fascism.
( He does not say that in his definition)
Secondly, although I am sure that Setanta is most learned,but he does not, and never has, given us any DOCUMENTATION OR EVIDENCE THAT RACISM IS NOT A PRIORI REQUISITE OF FASCISM.

To do this, of course, he must define Italian Fascism--a definition which I am sure BillyFalcon will know is almost impossible since Italian Fascism did not proceed from a body of WELL DEFINED AND IMMUTABLE PRINCIPLES, but evolved as it went. There are many quotes from Mussolini concering this evolution.

Setanta must also then define racism. He says that our constitution shows that we were "Racists"

Racism was, whether Setanta likes it or not, the conventional wisdom of the past several centuries. This, of course, does not make racism morally correct. It does, however, place it in context.
Some of the most eminent philosophers of the past would be classed, if one reads them carefully, as racists. Yet, no one would say they spoke with racial antipathy.

David Hume said:

"I am apt to suspect the Negroes, and in general all the other species of men, to be naturally inferior to the Whites":

Immanuel Kant wrote:

"The Negroes of Africa have received from nature no intelligence that rises above the foolish"

Hegel opined:

"The Negro race has perfect contempt for humanity, Tyranny is regarded as no wrong, and cannibalism is looked upon as quite customary and proper...."


Now, Setanta would stand on the shoulders of Charles Darwin to sneer at those brilliant philosophers and our founding fathers for their racist views, notwithstanding the fact that their ideas may have stemmed from ignorance--ignorance meaning, of course, lacking knowledge or information about a particular fact. Their ideas did not stem from mean-spiritedness or moral deficiency.

I am sure that it is so beneficial to one's self esteem to declare our founding fathers as morally corrupt racists while one is, Thank God, progressive, liberal and, it goes without saying, far above the stupid masses in understanding.

Billy Falcon's thesis, as with Italmassamortgato's rant, ignores that German nationalist bigotry, and its concommitant racist component, with its emphasis on anti-semitism, dates back at least as far as the 1860s and the rise of the German empire under the tutelage of Otto Bismark. Bicycles arose at about the same time. Therefore, using the Falcon/Italmassamortgato criterion, i submit that bicycles are foundational to fascism.

The virulently racist German nationalism which reached a peak of hysteria in the late 19th century does not anticipate either national socialism or fascism. It is necessarily ignorant of the conditions under which both will arise. This attempt to link fascim with national socialism, and therefore by extention to insinuate that racism is a, or even the sine qua non of fascism, is akin to saying that as both apples and oranges have the family resemblance of being fruits--they are the same thing. Neither of these members has a case for the contention.

Setenta, kuvasz

Perhaps the horse's mouth will be acceptable.
In his book "Mein Kampf" (My Struggle), Adolph says in Chapter IX "And so I registered as a member of th e German Workers party and received a provissional membersip card with the number 7."
------------------------------------
You seem to not know what the acronym "NAZI" stands for.

Nationalsozialtische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
It was abbreviated NSDAP.
translated: TheNational Socialist German Workers' Party.
NAZI was a German contraction for the name of the party.
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I am not aware that anti-Semitism dates back at least as far as 1860? What do you think I was referring to when I said we should know about "volk" and "volkisch?"



Y

Please, don't tell me you are calling Hitler or the Nazis socialists just because they used the name.

They weren't.