0
   

HOUSE SHOWDOWN ON IRAQ

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:15 pm
Lash wrote:
I'm not p.o. ed.

I'm glad the Republicans, and the White House in particular, has finally defending themselves against erroneous, cheap lies, perpetrated by disgusting Democrats. It has been funny to watch. If they really believed we should withdraw, they'd have voted for it. They were bitch-slapped!!!

It's the GOP who has finally starting to level thre playing field.

I think someone who is so hyperbolically condemning of one's behavior, should answer what she thinks of the other's similar behavior.


But, I'm not p.o.ed. Laughing
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:23 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
When did the Democrats last unanimously defeat their own proposal?

Just wondering.


When thet voted on a resolution about reinstating the draft.
Even the Dem that sponsored the bill voted against it.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:29 pm
mysteryman wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
When did the Democrats last unanimously defeat their own proposal?

Just wondering.


When thet voted on a resolution about reinstating the draft.
Even the Dem that sponsored the bill voted against it.


Link, please. I do not recall that all the Dems voted against that bill. In fact, I thonk Murtha voted for it...anyway, halftime is over.

Go Canes!
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:48 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
When did the Democrats last unanimously defeat their own proposal?

Just wondering.


When thet voted on a resolution about reinstating the draft.
Even the Dem that sponsored the bill voted against it.


Link, please. I do not recall that all the Dems voted against that bill. In fact, I thonk Murtha voted for it...anyway, halftime is over.

Go Canes!


The canes gotta do better,Georgia is playing them tight.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 11:24 pm
The bill to reinstate the draft which was sponsored by Democrats was killed on 10/5/2004. The vote was 402-2 against. The two who voted for the draft were both Dems - Murtha of PA and Stark of CA.

The Democrats (including Kerry) used the draft as a scare tactic in the runup to the '04 election, knowing all along there would BE NO DRAFT. Just more of their hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 11:34 pm
Why is it hypocrisy JW? I mean isn't it just politics?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 12:19 am
goodfielder wrote:
Why is it hypocrisy JW? I mean isn't it just politics?


Maybe in your world. In mine, the draft stunt and last night's 403-3 vote was pure Democratic moonbattery. And hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 02:40 am
The Republicans made sure the vote was for an immediate withdrawal.

Notice that they did not allow a vote on a phased withdrawal.

Wonder what the vote would be on that proposal?
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 02:53 am
JustWonders wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Why is it hypocrisy JW? I mean isn't it just politics?


Maybe in your world. In mine, the draft stunt and last night's 403-3 vote was pure Democratic moonbattery. And hypocrisy.


K - well your politics isn't much fun then. When you've finished with Karl Rove can we have him?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 04:18 am
Lash wrote:
Someone, quite confused about the facts, yet bloviated incorrectly anyhow, said:

What a silly, cheap, ploy.
I'm sure that's the first thing she said when the Democrats staged their "closed meeting."
It's funny, when I first read it, I thought some anti war person had gone nutso, and had created an utterly stupid tactical blunder.
The Dems keep harping about it--let them put up or shut up.
Then I read up on it, and realised, that, of course, it was a pro war Republican stunt.
She didn't seem to mind the Democrat stunt a couple of weeks ago.
As if anti war people are stupid enough to think you can unscramble the eggs just like that.
They don't know the first thing about how to conduct a war, and sadly, don't even have good hindsight. Laughing
If the American public are dumb enough to get fooled by propaganda about that vote come election time, then they deserve what they get.
It proved a valid point. They're all talk.
Ok, I have read more...this is part of a Bushco fightback/dissent is unpatriotic thing, right?
More should have been read before attempting to characterize it. How very telling. Recently, the liberals are completely avoiding facts. Just make them up as it suits threir agenda. This defensive reaction against irresponsible attacks by the Democrats was necessary. They won't be allowed to rewrite history.

So....how much of Congress's time, and taxpayer money did this ploy waste?
Such an important issue in Australia. Rolling Eyes
It would seem to show some contempt for political processes in your country.
Wrong. Rolling Eyes
Dissent unpatriotic, wasting time and money in a travesty of political process fine...hmmmm.
Meaningless, baseless statements. Rolling Eyes
I guess if this is a common tactic, well, so be it. But it seems to me a wasteful and would be didhonest one (if anyone was fooled.)
It proved a valid point, and entertained more than a few conservatives. Laughing Laughing


This has got to be one of the silliest, most indecipherable posts on A2K.

I don't care about different colors, has anyone heard of quote boxes?

Who's on first? What's on second? I Don't Know's on third base. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 04:27 am
kelticwizard wrote:
The Republicans made sure the vote was for an immediate withdrawal.

Notice that they did not allow a vote on a phased withdrawal.

Wonder what the vote would be on that proposal?



That should be the question you are emailing to your Representatives.

It will be the question asked around millions of Thanksgiving tables next week. (Unless Lash and Foxfyre are there, then no one will be allowed to speak ill of any GOP idea, notion or adventure.)

Joe(Please pass the peace, um peas)Nation
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 04:49 am
Lol! So very true.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 04:55 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Lash wrote:
Someone, quite confused about the facts, yet bloviated incorrectly anyhow, said:

What a silly, cheap, ploy.
I'm sure that's the first thing she said when the Democrats staged their "closed meeting."
It's funny, when I first read it, I thought some anti war person had gone nutso, and had created an utterly stupid tactical blunder.
The Dems keep harping about it--let them put up or shut up.
Then I read up on it, and realised, that, of course, it was a pro war Republican stunt.
She didn't seem to mind the Democrat stunt a couple of weeks ago.
As if anti war people are stupid enough to think you can unscramble the eggs just like that.
They don't know the first thing about how to conduct a war, and sadly, don't even have good hindsight. Laughing
If the American public are dumb enough to get fooled by propaganda about that vote come election time, then they deserve what they get.
It proved a valid point. They're all talk.
Ok, I have read more...this is part of a Bushco fightback/dissent is unpatriotic thing, right?
More should have been read before attempting to characterize it. How very telling. Recently, the liberals are completely avoiding facts. Just make them up as it suits threir agenda. This defensive reaction against irresponsible attacks by the Democrats was necessary. They won't be allowed to rewrite history.

So....how much of Congress's time, and taxpayer money did this ploy waste?
Such an important issue in Australia. Rolling Eyes
It would seem to show some contempt for political processes in your country.
Wrong. Rolling Eyes
Dissent unpatriotic, wasting time and money in a travesty of political process fine...hmmmm.
Meaningless, baseless statements. Rolling Eyes
I guess if this is a common tactic, well, so be it. But it seems to me a wasteful and would be didhonest one (if anyone was fooled.)
It proved a valid point, and entertained more than a few conservatives. Laughing Laughing


This has got to be one of the silliest, most indecipherable posts on A2K.

I don't care about different colors, has anyone heard of quote boxes?

Who's on first? What's on second? I Don't Know's on third base. Rolling Eyes



Lol!!!

I find it greatly increases the quality and depth of my A2k experience to avoid reading posts by Lash.


I check, sometimes, whether the initial sentence is full of spite and scheiss, and eschew the rest of the thing when (as so often) it is nothing but the aforementioned, and odd colours, often wrongly positioned.


I recommend it.


Does wonders.

And there are so many posters with things of substance to say.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 05:11 am
And I am beginning to hear more of this sort of thing:
Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
We failed in Vietnam because our military was not allowed to win it, and there were too many saying it couldn't be done or should not be done.

Now we have a chance to do a great thing in the Middle East and we have high skilled and trained men and women eager to do it and a constituency in Iraq providing a forum and a willingness to let us. All it will take to accomplish it is for Americans to be believers and demand an honorable victory. If too many Americans insist it can't be done or shouldn't be done, however, we will lose. And we and the world will be much the poorer for it.


Here it comes, the linking of the US's defeat in Viet Nam to this present "chance to do a great thing in the Middle East". All the right wing elements are there. The military wasn't "allowed to win it.", we have the all-volunteer Army on the ground -no lackabout draftees to impede things, and ''all it will take to accomplish it is for Americans to be believers and demand an honorable victory."

That's right. That's all it takes. Really. Just believe.

And there is that really nice edge of shame in there - we must not lose this one like we did in Viet Nam- we will be thus be utterly shamed as a nation. These two elements, belief and shame, are cornerstones of the present GOP philosophy. Believe in what they are doing because, and for no other reason, they believe in it. And shame on anyone else for uttering a discouraging word. And if shame doesn't work, they will shout you down or out your wife.

The Republicans of today see Viet Nam as a Democratic defeat because they see everything politically, but they have a problem. They are completely in charge of this enterprise and they are mucking it up badly. In other words, they have no one to blame but themselves. Ah, but wait!
They see someone they can blame.

They can't do it alone, they must have the American people in lockstep, er, believing in what they want to accomplish here or, horrors, there will be a (Republican) defeat in War.

In the back rooms the history re-writers are already penning: If the American people, (those bastards) had just believed more, defeat could have been avoided. If we had just waited for, held on, just a little longer....
(Yeah, I know. Maybe we should have waited for the inspectors to finish their work, but that is water under the bridge now.)

Should make for very interesting Thanksgiving conversation.

Joe(unless they turn up the sound on the ballgame...)Nation
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 05:28 am
That **** (the "stab in the back" re Vietnasm) has been doing the rounds for the entire war.


It seems to be being stepped up right now as a tactic, with Bush doing badly at the polls etc.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 05:45 am
Unfortunately for the Republicans those that can remember from personal experience and not books are still about. Someone in the bleachers can call "foul".
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 06:11 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Lash wrote:
Someone, quite confused about the facts, yet bloviated incorrectly anyhow, said:

What a silly, cheap, ploy.
I'm sure that's the first thing she said when the Democrats staged their "closed meeting."
It's funny, when I first read it, I thought some anti war person had gone nutso, and had created an utterly stupid tactical blunder.
The Dems keep harping about it--let them put up or shut up.
Then I read up on it, and realised, that, of course, it was a pro war Republican stunt.
She didn't seem to mind the Democrat stunt a couple of weeks ago.
As if anti war people are stupid enough to think you can unscramble the eggs just like that.
They don't know the first thing about how to conduct a war, and sadly, don't even have good hindsight. Laughing
If the American public are dumb enough to get fooled by propaganda about that vote come election time, then they deserve what they get.
It proved a valid point. They're all talk.
Ok, I have read more...this is part of a Bushco fightback/dissent is unpatriotic thing, right?
More should have been read before attempting to characterize it. How very telling. Recently, the liberals are completely avoiding facts. Just make them up as it suits threir agenda. This defensive reaction against irresponsible attacks by the Democrats was necessary. They won't be allowed to rewrite history.

So....how much of Congress's time, and taxpayer money did this ploy waste?
Such an important issue in Australia. Rolling Eyes
It would seem to show some contempt for political processes in your country.
Wrong. Rolling Eyes
Dissent unpatriotic, wasting time and money in a travesty of political process fine...hmmmm.
Meaningless, baseless statements. Rolling Eyes
I guess if this is a common tactic, well, so be it. But it seems to me a wasteful and would be didhonest one (if anyone was fooled.)
It proved a valid point, and entertained more than a few conservatives. Laughing Laughing


This has got to be one of the silliest, most indecipherable posts on A2K.

I don't care about different colors, has anyone heard of quote boxes?

Who's on first? What's on second? I Don't Know's on third base. Rolling Eyes

"A man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest".. Let me decipher it for you.

The Democrats have done the SAME thing dlowan screeches about the GOP doing.

She is doing everything she can think of to avoid admitting it. So now we're talking about parsing...

She can give up her high horse about decorum on A2K, as she almost always make the debate about me, rather than staying on the issue.

She should stop being so cowardly and face the issue.

Admit you didn't have a clue as to what you were talking about while you were condemning it--and now that you've been told the Democrats have done the same-- you are avoiding admitting it. Let's see what you're made of.

I'm sure dlo does try to avoid my posts. I'm the only one who calls her on her ****.

Joe--

I have no problem with people discussing it, as I'm sure you know. The problem is--they want to discuss a disfigured, incomplete view of it, as though they really have no interest in the facts, but just half gossip, and part fantasy. You can't condemn one group for doing it and pretend the other group didn't.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 06:37 am
joe

I think blame will be laid less in the lap of the 'people' but rather more to the 'mainstream liberal media' as pied piper of defeatism. Instances of this already abound from foxfyre and others.

Your remarks on 'shame' are interesting. The consideration seems to be that America's most critical source of pride derives from military actions. And I think the folks who will argue that view are either in the military themselves or who have deep ties and history with the military.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 06:39 am
Yes, Viet Nam's been floating around since the beginning, (it's in our national psyche afterall) but these comments of late, and I'm speaking of conversations I've had with real people, real believers, have recently started having a air of flop sweat about them. As if they have realized just how deep the doo doo they stepped in is. And how much of a dodo the dodo leading them through the doo doo is.

All this hoodoo about who thought the intelligence was right is pathetic. It's the job of the executive to determine what's true, not what everyone is reporting. Leadership is not stenography. It's asking the questions that may question your core beliefs, it's asking "Who disagrees and why?" We don't have that leader, but that's supposed to be a state secret.

Bush listened only to those who bolstered his own beliefs. We'll see that clearly IF the Senate ever finishes the review and does it honestly. It's a common mistake of bad leaders. I imagine it was the way Bush ran his companies in Texas, he doesn't like deviation from the initial concept. He reportedly gets prickly about anything out of focus.

When you are an oil pumper all that kind of thinking will do is lose you and your stockholders a few million here and there.

Of course, we've fired or retired all those in the intelligence community who failed to provide the true picture of conditions in Iraq.

Sure we have.

Joe(they are still toiling away, trying to figure out what he wants to hear now.)Nation
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 06:41 am
goodfielder wrote:
Unfortunately for the Republicans those that can remember from personal experience and not books are still about. Someone in the bleachers can call "foul".



Hmmmm, yes indeedy...however, most (as far as I can tell) of the warmonger folk have never experienced the awfulness of actually participating in a war.

Interesting how those who have are usually far less prone to declare it.


I hope they, and not the "stab in the back" crowd will be listened to.
0 Replies
 
 

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