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Senate to go into closed session over Iraq

 
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 08:40 am
Henry Kissinger, the war criminal, has spoken. End of debate then. LOL

This thread is about extricating ourselves from Iraq BTW.

But I guess now that I, and others, have shwon, Reid's move was necessary, they can only change the subject.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:44 am
Mortkat wrote:
Really, steppenwolf? Why not?

You are obviously unaware that Henry Kissinger has just advised that we NOT withdraw from Iraq quickly.

I am of the opinion that his considered judgment based on experience and knowledge, trumps yours by miles.

Do you always try to rebut an argument with one word or a phrase?

It doesn't work!!!!!


Who said I was advocating withdrawal? Read my post again; it says nothing of the sort. And if that doesn't help, I have argued elsewhere that we shouldn't withdraw, so I agree with your uber-realist hero -- on this one, at least.

By the way, sometimes only one word or a phrase is needed. I've made much longer arguments when necessary.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 10:09 am
Unfortunately, there is no good way to extricate ourselves from Iraq.

Go Canes!
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 03:59 pm
I am happy to be on these posts. One learns so much. Twin_Peaks_Nickkie says that Kissenger is a "war criminal". Since I am eager to learn, I respectfully request that Nikkie give some evidence that Kissenger is a "war criminal". Failing that, his statement and advice about not withdrawing from Iraq stands.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:01 pm
Since Nikki is obviously learned in ways of "extricating", he? she? might give a means of having the US extricating itself from South Korea.

We are still there in force, near the DMZ, you know!!!
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username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:05 pm
If memory serves, Kissinger was one of the architects of the "secret" bombing of Laos and Cambodia, nations with whom we were not at war, bombings which devestated those countries and their inhabitants and whose effects still linger. His fingers might not have been on the buttons which opened the bomb bays, but his hands aren't clean.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:13 pm
And considering all the money we spent on Vietnam, all the troops we lost there, and all the rosy statements made (which proved as absurdly out of touch with reality as all the rosy statements made by the Bushies about Iraq), after Dr. K started overseeing Nam, and how the S. vietnamese government proved a papier-mache shell anyway, I'd say Dr, K's pronouncements on world affairs are worth just about as much as the paper they're printed on (or the electrons they're sent with).
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:34 pm
Username- I am sorry but I am unaware that Henry Kissinger was convicted of being a war criminal. Of course, you may have some notions of what he allegedly did with regard to Viet Nam.

I have some notions of what Saint John Kennedy did with regard to the Mafia hit men who wanted to assassinate Fidel Castro and I also have some ideas about the secret deal that John Kennedy made with the Soviets regarding our missles in Turkey during the Missle Crisis.

Nonetheless, Kennedy is not classified as a "criminal."

And, you would probably also say, Clinton did not commit "perjury"..Sure, technically, of course.

Go peddle your "war criminal" dreams elsewhere, username. There are still millions of well informed Americans who know that Henry Kissenger's advice is worth while and, based on his wide ranging experience and superb intellect is someone to listen to.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 05:39 pm
Morkat,

First, username never said "war criminal" in either of his/her post, nor did he say anything about Clinton or Kennedy. You really ought to stop making up convenient and bogus arguments for your opponents.

Second, Korea has absolutely nothing to do with the present situation. No one is getting killed in South Korea, and no one thinks our presence there is inflaming any sort of insurgency. Is it really possible that you can't distinguish between these two countries? Honestly? Hey, why don't we extricate ourselves from Iceland? What is the difference between Iceland and Iraq? What about Fiji, we have troops there? It would be ridiculous to remove troops from Iraq without first busting out of Fiji, right? Oh gee, I know, we've got 11k troops in the U.K. Is it finally time to end our occupation of that country? Source for troop locations.

As I've stated, I'm against removing troops from Iraq, but your arguments are so offensive that I can't help myself hereĀ…
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 04:56 am
No one is getting killed in South Korea? No one? Do you know that for certain?

Are you so lacking in knowledge of History that you are unaware that we lost 30,000 soldiers in Korea in a police action to "contain Communism"?

Are you unaware that there have been violent protests by South Koreans concerning our presence there?

I read that Henry Kissinger counsels that we hold our troops in Iraq. I agree. Someone states that Kissenger's hands are not clean.

He said nothing about CLinton or Kennedy. I did.

If he wishes to hold "clean hands" as a criterion, I am pointing out that certain saints of the left wing church have far far dirtier hands than Kissinger.

I know that the left wing is stung when someone with the reputation of Kissinger comes along with a recommendation to keep troops in Iraq. This, is of course, detrimental to their efforts to regain power. Therefore, they must smear Kissinger.

I am sick to death of the hypocracy of the left wingers. Those who decry our Iraqi policy may not know that John Kennedy lied outrageously about his efforts to solve the Missle Crisis. It has been reported and documented that he lied. Username speaks of the "rosy statements made by the "Bushies" (sic) about Iraq".

What Username will not admit is that the Iraq situation is still in play and that there will be an election on December 12th which MAY bring a gradual change for the better.

The left wing is praying that a large scale withdrawal of troops occurs. I am sure that they hope that this will cause political instablity in Iraq so that they can regain power in November's elections.

I have some news for them. It won't happen.

It is clear that historical patterns of congressional losses in an off year no longer apply because of the congressional district gerrymandering( done by both sides).

There is nothing more pusillanimous than political operatives jockeying for advantage. They will lie egregiously.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 07:53 am
"Imagine that you're Henry Kissinger and every time you go to this or that European country you have to worry if you're going to be served with a subpoena, it has an effect," said Under Secretary of State John Bolton at a speech given in November of '02 to the Federalist Society. http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:pkDWqHU8tLMJ:www.grecoreport.com/Kissinger.htm+kissinger+subpoena&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:44 am
Mortkat wrote:
No one is getting killed in South Korea? No one? Do you know that for certain?

Are you so lacking in knowledge of History that you are unaware that we lost 30,000 soldiers in Korea in a police action to "contain Communism"?

Are you unaware that there have been violent protests by South Koreans concerning our presence there?


Yes, to the first bunch of questions, and no to the second -- I'm fully aware of our objectives in South Korea and of the history of that nation. Surely you aren't comparing the sporadic protests in South Korea to the insurgency in Iraq. I've been to South Korea on several occasions, and it's no Iraq. If you're so dead set on comparing the two situations, I'll gladly read any recent accounts of American beheadings, car bombs, suicide bombs, rebel-captured S.Korean towns, or random shootings of American troops in S.Korea.

Mortkat wrote:

I read that Henry Kissinger counsels that we hold our troops in Iraq. I agree. Someone states that Kissenger's hands are not clean.

He said nothing about CLinton or Kennedy. I did.


No doubt. It's all you, big guy.

Mortkat wrote:

If he wishes to hold "clean hands" as a criterion, I am pointing out that certain saints of the left wing church have far far dirtier hands than Kissinger.

I know that the left wing is stung when someone with the reputation of Kissinger comes along with a recommendation to keep troops in Iraq. This, is of course, detrimental to their efforts to regain power. Therefore, they must smear Kissinger.

I am sick to death of the hypocracy of the left wingers. Those who decry our Iraqi policy may not know that John Kennedy lied outrageously about his efforts to solve the Missle Crisis. It has been reported and documented that he lied. Username speaks of the "rosy statements made by the "Bushies" (sic) about Iraq".


JFK doesn't have anything to do with Iraq, nor has anyone denied JFK's efforts to solve the Missile Crisis. Again, you're putting bogus arguments into the mouths of your opponents. By the way, that's a cute use of "(sic)" after username's reference to "bushies." If you're going to nitpick, put "sic" in brackets instead of parenthesis and don't misspell words like "missile" and "hypocrisy" immediately before correcting the spelling of another A2K member. Wink

Mortkat wrote:

What Username will not admit is that the Iraq situation is still in play and that there will be an election on December 12th which MAY bring a gradual change for the better.


You're probably right about username's views on change in Iraq, but you're still putting your own arguments into his/her mouth.

Mortkat wrote:
The left wing is praying that a large scale withdrawal of troops occurs. I am sure that they hope that this will cause political instablity in Iraq so that they can regain power in November's elections.

I have some news for them. It won't happen.

It is clear that historical patterns of congressional losses in an off year no longer apply because of the congressional district gerrymandering( done by both sides).

There is nothing more pusillanimous than political operatives jockeying for advantage. They will lie egregiously.


Alright, I agree about the gerrymandering and the egregious lying by political operatives. However, I'm not sure that I buy your account of your opponents' unstated motives any more than your constant references to unmade, bogus arguments.

As far as I can tell, you're still arguing with yourself.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:13 am
Arguing with myself? I did not say that Kissinger's hands were not clean. User did. My posts were written to rebut him.

The left is transparent. They do not care whether American soldiers are killed and/or wounded in Iraq. It is all a political ploy to regain power in the House in 2006. As I said, it will not happen.

I will never forget the massive turnouts against the Vietnam War in which the unwashed scumbags piously parroted the line--War is immoral. We are for Peace. Jesus is for peace.

As soon as the draft stopped, the pious "principled" protest against the war stopped.

The left has no principles except a lust for power.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:15 am
Quote:
Pat Roberts flip-flopping covering your ass
Meet Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Stonywall), the guy who's been doing everything he can to impede the aforementioned investigation. As I'm sure you can imagine, it's been a real top priority of his for the last year or so.

The investigation is known as "Phase Two" because it's the second part of the Senate's look at how America ended up invading Iraq. The first part - the Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq - was completed last year. Phase Two is far more politically sensitive because it deals with the way the Bush administration used that intelligence, and with a majority of Americans now favoring impeachment for Bush if he lied the country into war - well, let's just say Pat Roberts has got his reasons for stalling.

Unfortunately for Pat he appears to have gotten himself caught in his own spin machine. Last week Media Matters pointed some rather glaring discrepancies in his statements over the past year or so.

For example, on July 9, 2004, Roberts called the investigation "one of my top priorities." Then on July 13, 2004, he said the investigation would focus on:

1) "what the intelligence community said in regards to what would happen after the military mission was over"; 2) the role of the Defense Department's Office of Special Plans, led by undersecretary Douglas Feith; and 3) "the use question" in which the committee would "look at the public statements of any administration official and public official ... and compare it with the intelligence and what we have found out in regards to the inquiry."

So much for that. In March, Roberts said that the investigation was "on the back burner," and wrote that, "I don't think there should be any doubt that we have now heard it all regarding prewar intelligence. I think that it would be a monumental waste of time to replow this ground any further."

Finally, in April, Tim Russert reminded Roberts that he had made a "firm commitment" to complete the investigation. Roberts replied, "Yeah, we're going to do that, Tim."

So you see? It's right at the top of his list of things to do. Just underneath "fly to the moon," "win an Olympic gold medal," and "star in a Broadway musical."
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:17 am
Mortkat wrote:

The left is transparent. They do not care whether American soldiers are killed and/or wounded in Iraq



LOL Mortkat's most absurd strawman argument yet.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:18 am
Mortkat wrote:

I will never forget the massive turnouts against the Vietnam War in which the unwashed scumbags piously parroted the line--War is immoral. We are for Peace. Jesus is for peace.

As soon as the draft stopped, the pious "principled" protest against the war stopped.



That is absolutely not true.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 02:06 pm
Mortkat wrote:
Arguing with myself? I did not say that Kissinger's hands were not clean. User did. My posts were written to rebut him.

The left is transparent. They do not care whether American soldiers are killed and/or wounded in Iraq. It is all a political ploy to regain power in the House in 2006. As I said, it will not happen.

I will never forget the massive turnouts against the Vietnam War in which the unwashed scumbags piously parroted the line--War is immoral. We are for Peace. Jesus is for peace.

As soon as the draft stopped, the pious "principled" protest against the war stopped.

The left has no principles except a lust for power.


Paris Peace Accords signed on Jan 27, 1973 - Official end of Vietnam war.
Mar 29, 1973 - 2,500 the last of US troops removed from Vietnam
Draft ended on June 30, 1973.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you attack people for not having principles. The war ended before the draft did.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 02:19 pm
Hey, go sic yourself, Mortkat. "Bushies"I said and "Bushies" I meant--an often-used term for the lockstep coterie in the White House, a term that would likely make it into the next edition of Merriam-Webster, except that they'll be long out of power by then.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:11 pm
mortkat, parados has already said it, but you really should get your chronology straight. The Vietnam anti-war protests stopped when the war stopped, which was quite a while before the draft ended. The cowards all fled to Canada; they didn't participate in the protests. The protesters were genuine pacifists, by and large. I'll concede that a few extreme left-wingers may have had another agenda, i.e. to support the Communists, but they were a very small faction within the larger turnout of genuinely concerned anti-war citizens.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:11 pm
mortkat, parados has already said it, but you really should get your chronology straight. The Vietnam anti-war protests stopped when the war stopped, which was quite a while before the draft ended. The cowards all fled to Canada; they didn't participate in the protests. The protesters were genuine pacifists, by and large. I'll concede that a few extreme left-wingers may have had another agenda, i.e. to support the Communists, but they were a very small faction within the larger turnout of genuinely concerned anti-war citizens.
0 Replies
 
 

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