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Atheists... Your life is pointless

Forums: Atheists, Spirituality And Religion, Krishnamurti, Izanami, Izanagi
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XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 05:59 pm
<lag>
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:07 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Tons and tons of evidence that science works.


Sure there is. Where was science of our Western kind during the supposed 2 million years of human existence, some say 4 million,(what's a couple of million years between friends?), before Christianity started in earnest in about 1,000 AD.

How about Ethel Rosenberg's electrocution? And the torture of conscientious objectors in US jails? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? And all the stuff JTT relates.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Some people do not have a problem admitting these injustices are in fact there...And a prominent reason why one would have a point to not do these injustices, (to learn from the mistakes they have made, as well as to learn from others who say that have this/these faith, and to learn from the ones who say they have no faith at all) Otherwise, it makes no difference if I am going around trying to profess about the hate that others do....and I can not see how anyone can have a real logical conclusion otherwise about it...? Sure, saying that reading a book to hear how one should be moral and not immoral is an easy set-up by atheists to explain how that theist must be a piece of ****...but it is just twisted thinking, really, in punishing one who is secure with a problem they have done, and coming to grips with it...While an irreligious, can just simply deny that they think it even happened, simply because they do not believe that it did etc...Which seems to be much more disingenuous...at least if a theist is going to admit a flaw they believe they commit...Despite what has happened in the past with believers, how can a future atheist claim that they have morality, or morals...? In your experience, how do they rationalize the first 2 options above? Do they view their atheistic flaws based upon others who came before them that had atheistic flaws also? How did one before explain that they believe or think that they had flaws that should not be replicated, so that other theists and atheists could learn? And your above post...Theism's do not teach that these kind of notions will not exist...It says the world will be filled with injustice, so make sure you are a tolerant, loving, caring, accepting, patient person...etc...What is the counter from a rejective standpoint?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:18 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Tons and tons of evidence that science works.


Sure there is. Where was science of our Western kind during the supposed 2 million years of human existence, some say 4 million,(what's a couple of million years between friends?), before Christianity started in earnest in about 1,000 AD.

How about Ethel Rosenberg's electrocution? And the torture of conscientious objectors in US jails? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? And all the stuff JTT relates.


Not sure what you mean there. Therefore, God? Where was god during all those tragedies? He's not necessary to explain evolution, but if he's there why are all those children starving in Africa and elsewhere? Why are babies born with severe deformities? Science has answers, but religion tends to back away and point to "God's mysterious ways." Not a very nice god to deform babies like that. If he does exist, piss on 'im.
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:24 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Therefore, God?


Nope!! Our God. And Rome wasn't built in a day.

What were you not sure about FB?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:33 pm
@FBM,
Not only deformed babies, but babies born with so many different kinds of diseases such as HIV/AIDS. In my world of "love," gods don't let babies get born with all these health ailments and diseases.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:47 pm
No one fully knows why all of these problems happen...but you can not reject God, and then point these out and explain how God is wrong, or why you do not believe he is there...It does not work that way...Either, you believe he is but reject him because you think he has made flaws which you believe he will or will not substantiate one day...Or these problems exist on their own since no God actually does...then you can not blame God, or scoffle believers...because God isn't real anyways...and he, or we are not the reasons that they occur, just like it is not an atheists fault...and we are trying to help just like atheists are...What is a way to aid the world in these respects by rejections? Do you think that explaining to a child that they are not sick because you reject it is so, will help them more than positive spirituality will do? Do you think that explaining to a child that they are sick because you believe it, and want to help is religion?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:53 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Not sure what you mean there. Therefore, God?


If Spendius or Spade are actually saying, "Therefore, GOD"...they are being irrational and illogical.

If you are citing all the stuff you cited and then saying, "Therefore, no gods"...you are being every bit as irrational and illogical.

No logical inference can be derived about the existence or non-existence of a GOD or gods from any argument or citation offered from either side here.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 06:57 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
you can not reject God, and then point these out and explain how God is wrong,


Why not? Can you explain how what you consider to be the pagan Gods are wrong? Why cant others explain how the god you worship is wrong?

Quote:
or why you do not believe he is there.


Can you explain why yo do not think that Ganesha is there but you think that others can not do the same for the God you believe?

Quote:
It does not work that way...Either,


Why not? Do you really think that Ganesha is real?

Quote:
Either, you believe he is but reject him because you think he has made flaws which you believe he will or will not substantiate one day...Or these problems exist on their own since no Ganesha actually does...then you can not blame Ganesha , or scuffle believers...because Ganesha isn't real anyways...and he, or we are not the reasons that they occur, just like it is not an atheists fault...and we are trying to help just like atheists are...



XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:18 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Why not? Can you explain how what you consider to be the pagan Gods are wrong? Why cant others explain how the god you worship is wrong?

I do not explain how I think Pagan Gods are wrong...because I do not believe they are there, and mean it...If I was to explain how I think that they are not, and also explain how they can't be or are evil, then I am not being honest in saying that I think they are not there at all...

Quote:
Can you explain why yo do not think that Ganesha is there but you think that others can not do the same for the God you believe?

Nope...I can not...because I do not believe that Ganesha (a minor God in Hinduism, not the trinity of Vishnu, Shiva, Brahman...) is there...but she either is or is not...Just like others want to claim about "the God I believe"

Quote:
Why not? Do you really think that Ganesha is real?

It doesn't make a difference if I think she is or is not...If Ganesha is, then she is...If Ganesha is not...Then she is not...Ganesha would not need me to justify how she is or is not if she is there, and is a God...and my own justifications would not alter either of these two outcomes...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:32 pm
@reasoning logic,
It is very disingenuous to say the least to claim to not believe or reject Gods...and then say but if they do, I think they are evil because....Unless one concedes that they think God is evil all along...and calls a spade a spade...because they believe it is true...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:33 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
.If Ganesha is, then she is...If Ganesha is not...Then she is not...Ganesha would not need me to justify how she is or is not if she is there, and is a God..


So you think that there could be some possibility that Ganesha is the one and true God?
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
My statement was that there are tons of evidence that science works (aimed at the anti-evolutionist theist stance taken up by spendius) and none whatsoever that any supernatural deity is responsible for the world we see around us.

Also, as I've pointed out a couple of times before, I reserve the right to use rhetoric, since that's the norm for this debate. If I want to make a knowledge claim, I will signal it.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:39 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Therefore, God?


Nope!! Our God. And Rome wasn't built in a day.

What were you not sure about FB?


Mainly not sure what you're trying to say. Are you the guy whose native language isn't English? No offense if it is, but knowing that may help me interpret your words. I teach university-level EFL when I'm not banging my head against the wall here. Wink
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Mon 25 Mar, 2013 07:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
So you think that there could be some possibility that Ganesha is the one and true God?

I think that one God exists...and it goes by many different names...that no single person probably knows in this life...I am not sure if Ganesha is it, or apart of it or not...and by me explaining how she could or could not be...Is me explaining that I think she is apart of it and why, or how I justify how I think she could not be, and why...but it may be true...even if I am not honest about it...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2013 02:35 am
@FBM,
Spendi is far more articulate than you, and has a wonderful turn of phrase.

If anyone writes as if English is their second language, it's you.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Tue 26 Mar, 2013 02:57 am
:airwank:
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2013 06:32 am
@FBM,
I did not say you were making a "knowledge claim."

I was agreeing with your comment...and then I merely noted the other side of the coin. Think of the "you" as a universal you.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2013 06:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
Ah! That's where I misread you. Thanks for explaining, Frank.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2013 06:58 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
It is very disingenuous to say the least to claim to not believe or reject Gods..


Get it into your noggin Spade. It's about nothing else other than undermining a Church which prescribes, as best it can, certain rules regarding sexual conduct which are deemed inconvenient.

If the Christian God forbade getting out of bed before 10 am or drinking through a straw this debate would not be taking place. The main bones of contention are artificial birth control, divorce, adultery, homosexuality and the special case of artificial birth control: abortion.

If you are offered evens that promoters of atheism have, or are, engaged with one or other of those activities, mortgage the house and get it all on.

Science has nothing to do with it. Which is just as well because all the promoters of atheism don't understand science which demonstrates sufficiently for anybody but the dumbest that the Christian God is the mightiest God and the fittest to survive and that had the Christian Church been in charge nuclear technology would have been kept a restricted export on the grounds that the other gods would never have invented or developed it while ever they had holes in their arses.

The use of science regarding society stands in a similar relationship to promoters of atheism as does the use of a baseball bat to those who have taken it into their heads to trash a neighbour's greenhouse with the nearest object to hand which will serve the purpose.
 

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