Atheists... Your life is pointless

If the sacred is the secret of our evolutionary success where does that leave atheists?

But that does not mean that time is a 4th dimension then (not saying you have or have not)...all that it means is we are seeing something we think is a 4th dimensional action within the 3rd dimension itself...because the speed of light is a concept we can not physical experience...in a comprehensible way...as in immediate...

If something takes thousands of years because it is so far away at the speed of light, then that is still a 3rd dimensional quality, or all 3rd dimensional qualities...that one we can not immediately experience...Unless we are actually able to be in this 4th dimension (if it exists), in its entirety...and experience it instantaneously...which is much different than how you have just explained time (4th dimension) (with maybe your own correlation to how you view time?....)

It's not possible to debate with Frank and see him remain civil if you challenge the Gospel According to Saint Frank. There are many people here with whom i agree about nothing, such as Orraloy, but who have never called me any names, and who have never sneered at me nor made snide, personal remarks. I don't call Oralloy names because he doesn't call me names. I don't make snide, personal reflections on his character because he doesn't do it to me. I agree with just about none of the political opinions of O'George--but he doesn't call me names or make snide remarks about my character, so i don't do it to him.

I consider the Dalai Lama a pig because he wallows in donated money, gives a little bit of away here and there, and then wallows in his image of a holy man. He's never lifted a finger in his life to earn his living, and when the Chinese invaded Tibet, so that he could no longer enjoy the benefits of the feudal society, he went to the west and discovered the benefits of well-managed public relations.

Here's a hint for you, remarks like that are only offensive to those who are uncritical of their "gods," which is how they explicitly see your boy Jesus, and implicitly see that pig the Dalai Lama. This place couldn't function if people were prohibited from expressing their contempt for anyone or any idea.

I see you're still on about sammich. That's your problem and not mine. If you don't see it as funny, so what? It was never intended to be funny, that's just how some people say it. You really need to get a life, if you've got nothing better to do that try your pathetic scatter gun "debating" technique on me.

Yes, we can physically experience the speed of light. Depending on conditions, it takes a radio message from one to one and a half seconds to reach the moon from the earth.. What is this supposed to mean: ". . . in a comprehensible way . . . as in immediate . . . ?" This is an example of you getting incoherent. I can think of few things more immediate that radio waves travelling from the earth to the moon.

I find your remarks about a fourth dimension equally lacking in coherence. I didn't bring up a fourth dimension, and i'll pass on being forced to discuss your terms and perceptions unless and until you make clear what it is you are trying to say.

With the profane.

Do you think that time is a 4th dimension? Or a quality/characteristic within the 3rd?

I made it as coherent as I could...

Only so long as the disagreement is not significant to him. Have a look through the smears and innuendos he directed my way on the abortion issue.

Look at that one above on Setanta "brooding". It's only one word I know but it is intended to convey an impression which is false. That Setanta is "bad, blue, brooding , bummed out, cast down, chapfallen, cheerless, crestfallen, daunted, dejected, despondent, disappointed, disconsolate, discouraged, disheartened, dismayed, dispirited, distressed, doleful, down, down in the dumps, down-in-the-mouth, downhearted, dragged, droopy, dull, forlorn, gloomy, glum, heartsick, in pain, listless, low, low-spirited, miserable, moody, mopey, morose, oppressed, sad, shot down, singing the blues, sunk, troubled, weighed down and woebegone."

Those are just some of the words that the Thesaurus gives of synonyms of brooding. And the impression is partly filled out by them. That Setanta is a suicide case not to put too fine a point on it. Pure bullshit and with the manners and social grace of a pig.

Also that Setanta is not cheerful. elated. glad. happy and satisfied which are the antonyms the Thesaurus gives for that impression. By the RIC (the reverse invidious comparison) Apisa is giving the impression he is "cheerful. elated. glad. happy and satisfied" and he takes pains in his posts to assure us that he is all those and more besides.

Apisa's a double-dyed shithouse. Totally impossible.

That "brooding" is proof of it. He resorts to that kind of thing like a duck resorts to water.

I'm not saying that Setanta is guiltless in this respect. Possibly it is a cultural thing which we don't understand. But I will say that Setanta doesn't offend me the way Apisa does in this regard. Apisa's a "have you stopped beating your wife?" merchant.

'Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn’t there
He wasn’t there again today
I wish, I wish he’d go away...'

Yeah, that's coherent. You usually slide into incoherence by being too prolix.

Time is a fourth dimension, but it is not a spatial dimension. It doesn't define space, and relativistic effects can alter the spatial dimensions because of their effect on time. If i were on a vessel m moving through space at a speed near the speed of light, it could get to that star Antares well within my lifetime, but ten thousand years would have passed on earth, which is only moving negligibly with reference to my vessel and antares. As my vessel moved, the amount of space it occupies will be altered by it's relationship to time, it's relationship to the relativistic effects.

The consideration of time as a dimension causes a good deal of confusion precisely because if is not a spatial dimension as are the other three. I found this discussion of the issue, and maybe it would help you to read it. That thread considers time as a spatial dimension.

(I just had to go get the little blind dog from upstairs, you need to walk slowly downstairs with her to catch her if she falls. I'm now going to feed the dogs and let them outside. So i might not respond immediately to what you post. It won't be because i'm ignoring you or dissing you.)

I get the impression he's a bit of a mother hen, without the eggs.

He's a bloke izzy, Seen some serious **** I gather.

I have something to do myself right now, but I am going to read that thread...And I will reply to you as well...

I am not judging you, and I also do not mean to be dissing you...but I think that your last reply was very courteous...Thank you...

Maybe he should start acting like one.

That "if" is sure a big word; it means the author hasn't a clue! I prefer to rely on observable evidence to make life decisions; I'm comfortable with that!

Faith is nice when you ignore the history of what they believe in, and no observable evidence for it. Emotion isn't evidence.

The "if" is not such a big word. The sacred is the secret of our success.

Go from square one without it. You would have no science as we know it. Euclid exhausted the science of his day. The science of the here and now is not the science of dynamic space. Today's life decisions are conditioned, mainly, on our science and without the sacred you would not have it. The proof is the observable fact that the sacred, in our terms. accompanied the growth of science.

You're making assumptions that are specious. Did you know that China invented many of the products that were claimed in Europe?

Start with paper and gun powder.

Read the book "The Man Who Loved China" by Simon Winchester; you might learn a thing or two about facts.

That's not science. You read Spengler. Find out what science is.

Tons and tons of evidence that science works. Zip evidence for your deity. Zip.

How about if I watch one human beating another to death with stones because she was wearing the wrong clothes or mumbled the wrong words? Or burning someone alive because he refused to believe in the same invisible deity? Or shooting a doctor in the head because he's doing something that he thinks his god doesn't want people to do, even though that god never directly said anything about it.


Without the sacred we are less deluded? No supernatural deity is required to explain how humans evolved into what we are today.

Some people just refuse to acknowledge the crimes religions have played upon other humans. They can't even see their own bigotry against other races, cultures, women, gays and lesbians, minorities, and the wealthy vs the poor and the middle class.

There's no ......