Atheists... Your life is pointless

<lag>

That would all depend upon how you actually feel, since you are a Buddhist, and I am not...If you think that Buddhism is an atheistic-theology...please explain to me what you agree or disagree with what I have said about atheism?...and we can go from there...It would be virtually impossible for me to understand Buddhism as well as a Buddhist does...

The main thing I see different, is it appears Buddhists claim they have beliefs, or claim to have a theological aspect that atheists claim they reject...

Do you think that Buddhism does not have beliefs? Or a theological aspect to it? What do you consider a theism? And what do you consider atheism? (From what appears to be an atheistic-theology...) I am sorry if you do not agree with that interpretation, but that is why I am asking you to explain your own views about Buddhism...

Then I will fully be able to answer your questions as to how I think they would apply the same ways or not...based upon what I have heard atheists claim, your position of Buddhism, and my own perspectives...

If I had to give an interpretation off of the top of my head...I think that Buddhism is just about as infinitely possible as one can get to being closer to reality than straight up hardcore skepticism is...

Because if it is an actual atheistic-theology...It attempts to explain the purpose to existence, and an atheistic view point without the need for any Gods...

Which means it seems to me, it is doing everything that a hardcore skeptic can not do by the current views/lacks that they have...

If it is an atheistic-theology...

Now if it is a theism...The thing that throws me off is, is it an actual theism? It seems to me that if some sort of afterlife exists, then it does...and if not, then it does not...And if one dies or ceases to exist...I think it would just happen...I can't understand why one would want to chose to cease to exist...to end our suffering...And to be honest, I can't say that I think anyone would...because if the desire to live and suffer is that strong...I can not say that I think if there are no Gods that we would be able to self extinguish this flame forever...Or want too...and if the purpose is to cease...why would we have to learn this over rebirths if needed? and not just know that this is the way it must ultimately be? Meaning we would live on forever in some way, because we can...and want to, even if we suffer...and an afterlife is there...Or cease forever once we die...because it ultimately is not...Or is not meant to be...and we do not want to suffer, and will have too...

Do you think there is anyway that Buddhism can be considered straight up atheism?

You asked,

Excellent question. Let me offer my worth of personal opinion.

As long as it's an organized religion like any other, it can never be considered as "atheism." Organized religion requires revenues and adherents and all the trappings of a structure where the adherents gather to "learn" the teachings of Buddha. They pray and offer offerings, and follow the dogma of the leaders of the church.

As long as they "worship" Buddha as their founder and leader, and follow his precepts to enlightenment, he is indeed treated as a deity.

Well the God of the Bible certainly had no reservation in dealing with other behavior that displeased him.

Gathering firewood on the sabbath. Stone them.

Commit adultery. Stone them.

Unruly son. Stone him.

Owning slaves. Its cool, and you can even beat them so long as they don't die within 2 days.

You're "just asking" because you want to continue to avoid cooperating, you want to continue your bullying ways. Answer my question, and i'll answer one of yours.

Nothing I know of is effective at making someone immortal. Its efficacy is at relieving dukkha, which is what the Four Noble Truths are explicitly all about. In particular, it relieves the existential anxiety experienced by one's awareness of one's own inevitable death. Just like any other religion.

Some people have high physical pain tolerance and others don't. Same as for existential pain. Some people don't need the false comfort of a myth of an afterlife. Others do. I wouldn't criticize a doctor for giving a placebo to a terminal patient on whom no other painkillers work. If the patient feels better, no problem. Likewise, I don't have a problem with anyone believing in a religious myth (evidence-based science and reason don't work for them) as long as they don't bother me or people dear to me about it. I don't need it.

The problem for me is that with religion as the placebo, there are people so addicted to it that they demand that the rest of the world believe that the placebo is real medicine, and that those who don't use it - because they don't need it - are bad people deserving death and damnation. Furthermore, they want to prevent people from using anything else but their brand of placebo, again, punishable by death and damnation. I have a problem with those people not because they're using the placebo, but because they're hostile and aggressive to the rest of us.

No, I am honestly not...

Yes, I believe that Christianity provides a solution to all of the injustices in the world, by rewarding people with an eternal afterlife in Heaven...That one can only find by accepting Jesus Christ, and living off their sinful actions in Hell on their way to redeeming themselves from Hell, that does not stop, and becomes worse till you wish to repent from everything immoral that one has done...That culminate "the Devil" and is the reason why one must have faith in Jesus Christ to prevail against all others being purged that culminate "the Devil" So that Jesus will draw you closer and closer to getting one out of the pits in Hell, and will aid you in ones own battle(s) such as destroying the demons one self creates in their lifetime...and brings ones soul into eternal peace forever...That makes both faith, and actions viable to God...And determines how long one must be purged, and who you are once in Heaven...

I think that anyone who is sick in Gods eyes, anyone who does not know the difference in Gods eyes, anyone who is meek in Gods eyes, anyone who is poor in spirit...have a leg up...and are already guaranteed salvation, because they are the ones who will be looking for this spiritual quenching...I think that anyone who claims to know the words of God, and proclaim harsh judgments upon others, based upon a label, Or strictly faith in this God that we all are not faithful too...and is not fully indicative to who we actually are...only make this journey worse for themselves...but it makes them guaranteed to be worthy of salvation also...because they will endure more for ultimately being more of a hypocrite...but it will allow Jesus Christ to aid them more in their personal battles...but they will also not feel as much pain as it happens...So that everyone will be saved...but it is also a process we all must endure upon letting our souls be in eternal peace...

Once it is all over, "the Devil" (a term I think God uses to explain peoples evil nature, and as one entity)...evil, or immoral actions will never be seen, done, felt, experienced...etc...ever again...forever...



I will be back with my one question...

If Christianity provides "a solution to it all," then why is there still injustice in the world 2000 years later? To be more specific, since one dodge might be to say that the entire world is not Christian, why is there injustice in Christian nations? With all of this, i will point out that you haven't defined "all" as you are using it in this context, but i'll assume that, for now, you just mean injustice. I will also observe that your comment is not exclusive, because one might as easily allege that Islam provides "a solution to it all," or that those who do not profess any religious belief might provide "a solution to it all." If you mean that Christianity and Christianity alone can provide "a solution to it all," your faced with the problem of which flavor of Christianity you refer to. Finally, you have completely sidestepped the issue of injustice which is caused by religion, despite Christianity, or even possibly because of it.

EDIT: Yes, i recall that you have a question you can ask to have answered before you answer any others of mine.

I will say one more thing you have addressed. Before I ask my question, that you brought up, that I wanted to say, but did not do it in enough time...

Anyone who follows the laws, with be subjected to the laws, anyone who has faith in the words, will be subjected based upon the words, and anyone who believes by faith alone, will be subjected based upon faith alone...

You can ask more questions if you would like too...I have changed my mind...I do not wish to ask any questions right now...

Because one does not fully rid themselves of their own sufferings till they are in eternal peace...

Because they claim to know God...but like scripture says, anyone who thinks he knows something, knows nothing at all...It is better to be simple minded...think like an infant...stop fighting over meaningless scoff-lings...etc...

I think I may have addressed this in my last post before this one...

Any single thing that one professes about any single notion, is what they will ultimately be subjected too in return...

I think that there is a spiritual kingdom of every kind that one can imagine...I do not know how much weight it may carry for others, but I have been to Buddhists kingdoms (if they call it that) as well as Toaistic ones...As well as everyone I have ever studied...And they are subjected to what they claim...in accordance to whatever way God chooses for them to find themselves...In accordance to their faiths...in the process of living off their sins, and embracing Jesus Christ to save people...in ways that no other God can do...And every other kingdom will be consumed with the evil...because no other God has the authority to actually save people...

I am still iffy on this last part...because I have not experienced enough...and do not embrace any other faiths enough...to know exactly how I think it works...but what I have said above...is what I believe, because it is what I have personally experienced....

People reap what they sow...

I do not think I sidestepped what injustices are caused by Christianity...and what the justifications are for salvation...

Is there anything you did not understand?

Well, you have a problem here, in that you keep changing your focus. We were specifically speaking of injustice, and now you have introduced suffering. One might suffer because others are subjected to injustice, but that is not axiomatic. I will also point out that i made my initial comment, which was not directed at you, although it was in response to something you wrote, because the comment you wrote suggested that atheists cannot recognize or ameliorate injustice, apparently because they are atheists. I consider that an unwarranted and indefensible position to take. One needn't believe that there is a god to see that there is injustice, nor to do something about injustice. The most immediate step anyone can take to eliminate injustice, and arguably the most important step, is not to label people and make assumptions based on an arbitrary and not necessarily accurate label. So, for example, calling someone an atheist only means that they don't believe there is a god--it doesn't even tell us if that person simply doesn't believe, or if he or she asserts that there is no god. It certainly tells us nothing about their perception of or attitude toward injustice. Labeling people that way, and making assumptions based on the label rather than the actions and statements of the person, is gross injustice, and it is bigotry. A great many of the world's injustices derive from bigotry and what it can lead to.

Oh, a great deal. But if i point it out, you'll get angry again because i will have to point out that several of your remarks are incoherent.

I won't get angry, ask away...I am going in a bit...but I will do my best to give you my perspectives when I come back on...

This response is for you first post above...Probably all very true...I am clearly not the best to express my views about atheism...Since I am not an atheist...I would say I was once, and what I found out about myself, is that it is basically Satanism in my own personal perspective...I do not know what anyone else would self describe themselves as...that is truthful...

If one suffers because of someone else...the person who caused it will suffer for it, and the other(s) will not be held accountable for those actions they did not perpetrate...anything that is seen as one understanding the consequences of doing the actions, and choosing to do these actions are guilty...

If you claim that "atheism" is "Satanism," then clearly you were never an atheist. It's tedious to repeat one's self, but "atheism" does not really exist. If you type in "define -ism" in a Google search window, this is the response at the top:



An atheist is not the follower of any such distinctive practice, system or philosophy, an atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe that there is/are a god/gods. Equating an atheist with a Satanist if both insulting and stupid. Insulting because it is pejorative in the view of theists; stupid because you only get satan if you've already got god. No god, no satan.

Such remarks are an example of bigotry, and represent an injustice.

You asked me what I thought, or that is how I interpreted it...Since there were no questions, but I assume you wanted to know...so I told you what I thought...I also explained it was my own personal perspective, I also said I am not the best to express, and I also said I could not explain what I think others would self call it...and what you said was truthful...

And I also said before that I believe that "the Devil" is a culmination of all evilness...I do not think it is a physical entity that will oppose God...

Basically to me, in a nutshell...it was some kind of self worshiping...Or self importance that does not exist that is based upon sinful thinking, and not caring about it...

I think the reason I think I now have a gift, is because on this earth, I am now a slave to help other individuals if they are willing to hear me...but since I once rejected God myself...I do not have any utter authority to actually show people that there is a God for them to see, like a Saint can by miracles...Or an Apostle can...by prophecy and miracles...but God explains to me that one can always work back up if one actually wants to do it...

Wow . . . not only do you own your bigotry and think you can justify it, you just make if more nasty. If you equate "atheism" (something which does not actually exist) with "Satanism," and you consider "the Devil" to be the culmination of all evilness, than you inferentially say that atheists are the culmination of all evil.

Speaking figuratively, you really need to get your brain in gear before you slip the clutch on your mouth. You are truly a hateful bigot. So what if that's your personal perspective? It's still hateful and it's still bigotry.

Never mind...I thought I was acting civil since it did not resort to attacks from myself to you...and none of that stuff you said just now is what I implied anyone else has to believe...I said that that is how I subjectively viewed myself...and once again, I said that no one would have to view it the same, since I do not know their own perspectives...but since you view it this way, or have made those remarks to me just now...it appears that you may actually find validity to it, but may be trying to lash out at me because of it? I don't really know...Since I do not know how you fully view yourself...and I believe that only God does...

In any event have a good morning Setanta...I actually enjoyed the conversations up until that last post...but you don't care right? Its cool...see ya later...

I was saying that whatever one thinks they are...reciprocated is who they are, and all that they can ever become...unless they want to change...

Just my subjective views once again though...See ya 'round

He never when charge with being an atheist stated that he was not to my knowledge!!!!!!!!

Second, all positive references to a god in his writings seems to be when he was acting in the position of wordsmith in the service of his new nation not when he was addressing his own believes or lack of same.

Third, there is no need to prove without question that he was completely sane over the matter of religion or not as a man who did not openly buy into the religion dogma of any of the major faiths and was charge with being an atheist when running for president a charge he never address was still elected president.

So there is no reason therefore to state that an atheist could not be elected president when Jefferson who did everything but stated "I am an atheist" was indeed elected president!!!!!!!!!!!