Atheists... Your life is pointless

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

They hide rl. Serious research is required to identify them. If I was talking to one in the pub do you think he will inform me that he uses his surgical expertise to nullify a choice somebody made

I do not know the answer do you?

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@MattDavis,

And my answer wasn't expressly about me. It's about the culture, environment, and how children acclimate to their environment whether it progresses and develops or stays stagnant.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

He may have been because if I am not mistaken there was a time where you were accepted if you believed and believing was mandatory but yet they did not care what you believed in as long as you believed in some sort of God. Do you think that he was without these sociological pressures?

It is my opinion that he was under lots of social pressures to conform to what the electorate prefers. EVERY POLITICIAN is under those pressures...in my opinion...and EVERY politician always has been and probably always will be.

Just out of interest, though...forgetting the office of the presidency, has anyone here been able to come up with any acknowledged atheists who have been elected to national office here in America.

I've come up with two...out of the many thousands of people elected to national office during the 230+ years of our Republic only two so far:

Kyrsten Sinem a Democratic representative from Arizona

Pete Stark a Democratic representative from California (who declared his atheism only after having served for 30 years in congress.)

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@Frank Apisa,

It is appalling that non-theists have so much trouble being elected. It is appalling that "believing" in a god is so important to so many Americans.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

...atheism offers no solution to many of these issues, it seems that many atheists seem more concerned with their own absolutes...Which does not seem to be beneficial, even if there are no Gods...So what good reason is there to embrace atheism at all?

Just to clarify Spade, do you believe Buddhism is a form of atheism or not and if you do believe it to be atheist am I to read your posts about atheism as posts about Buddhism?

If not then how is Buddhism in your opinion different from atheism i.e. what is the 'most important' difference?

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Teaching that there is an afterlife seems analogous to a doctor prescribing a placebo. It helps you deal with the certainty of death, but without doing anything to cure the condition. Some people need such placebos, others don't.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Teaching that there is an afterlife seems analogous to a doctor prescribing a placebo. It helps you deal with the certainty of death, but without doing anything to cure the condition. Some people need such placebos, others don't.

That's interesting FBM but can't it also be seen as the opposite i.e. that the results of non-virtuous karma cannot be avoided? So, it's not to help with death but a warning to the non-virtuous that death is no escape from the inevitable detrimental consequences and one should therefore abandon non-virtuous actions and purify one's view even if it takes apparently valuable time from the transient 'pleasures' of this life.

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The suggestion that the existence of god prevents injustice is an absurdity. The world is rampant with injustice, and if one asks theists how their god can allow that, you get some "god moves in mysterious ways" claptrap. I've never known a theist who can adequately explain how injustice and misery exist in a world controlled by an allegedly merciful and loving god. In fact, theists spend a lot of time blaming the victims.

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@Setanta,

God works in mysterious ways; too complicated for simple minds like mine.

All those contradictions are confusing and not rational, but billions of people believe in their god(s). It's been proven by research that prayers do not work, and yet they all pray daily to their god. They say they communicate with their god, but I don't understand how it can be a two way conversation. Go figure.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

It's all in the service of the ridiculous notion that kids owe their parents something rather than the other way round.

Where is all this indebtedness language coming from? You keep resorting to economic analogies for ethical action. Is your image of God some record keeper in the sky?
Here is my mental image of the premise in your arguments of late:
A spoiled disillusioned child stomping off to his room. Just before slamming the door, she coolly looks back at her parents and says "You know what? I wish I was never even born." Oh... she sure showed them! She sure knows how to hit them where it hurts. To hell with parents for loving kids. Right Spendi?
That'l teach 'em.

The problem with your argument is that the majority of the population are not spoiled brats. Your projection of mental misery and despair does not correlate with the subjective experience of the majority of the world (poor and wealthy alike). There is suffering in the world, those who care about that make attempts to reduce that suffering.
The alternative of course is to bow out philosophically, or physically. To retreat into nihilism, or retreat into death.
You are right in that regard, despite a simplistic reading of "evolution". A nihilism that sucks out will or makes actions arbitrary is not selected for. It is not the dying out of some genetic allele. It is a philosophical failure. It dies out in the world of shared ideas.
I will not try to talk anyone out of a belief in God... Not if this is something they must have in order to bring behavior into line with helping others and not participating in self-harm. The danger of belief is when it is unexamined. Innuendo's about abortion doctors, for instance, reveal an bubbling violent sentiment. I don't so much care if you believe in God. I care very much, however, what your God looks like.
Show me your God... I will show you how you wish you were.
That's the worshiping-mindset.

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@MattDavis,

I'm not talking about what some hypothetical kid said to her parents Matt.

I'm talking about what the parents say to each other before they start parenting.

It is astonishing me that the difference is beyond your comprehension.

BTW--the majority of the population look like spoiled brats to me.

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@spendius,

Quote:

hey won't if they are pious, virtuous and saintly Bill.

I had assumed wrongly that you known something about the Christian dogma as the path to heaven is shut to all humans no matter how virtuous or saintly without the person kissing Jesus ass and asking him for forgiven and in reverse the road to heaven is open to all sinners including the Hitler type of sinners if they do kissed Jesus ass and ask for his forgiven

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

f you consider the teachings of Jesus to be part of Christian and Catholic dogma. Jefferson thought the teachings of Jesus were brilliant and edifying.

As a human being not as the son of god however.............big big difference indeed.

An you could indeed still be an atheist and a believer that a man name Jesus did existed and was a great moral teacher.

All the supernatural nonsense that surrounded Jesus good old Jefferson did not buy into at all.

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@spendius,

Spendius wrote:

I'm not talking about what some hypothetical kid said to her parents Matt.

You're not? I thought you were talking about the rationality of reproduction. This is not the postulating of a hypothetical?

Spendius wrote:

I'm talking about what the parents say to each other before they start parenting.

I realize that. Whose parents are you talking about. Hypothetical ones?

Spendius wrote:

It is astonishing me that the difference is beyond your comprehension.

It astounds me that you equate origin with purpose. Where does this narrative come from?

Spendius wrote:

BTW--the majority of the population look like spoiled brats to me.

That is surely a consequence of your particular vantage point.

http://td-architects.eu/admin/uploads/files/c660e616d5d83111d6af3e701493d27f.walled_world_td-architects.jpg.jpg

I'll give you a hint. You are in the 14% sector.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

As a human being not as the son of god however.............big big difference indeed.

An you could indeed still be an atheist and a believer that a man name Jesus did existed and was a great moral teacher.

All the supernatural nonsense that surrounded Jesus good old Jefferson did not buy into at all.

Yes, you could. But because you do not accept the divinity of Jesus does not make you an atheist. There were atheists on the planet before Jesus was even born.

And one can easily "not buy into" all the supernatural nonsense that surrounded Jesus...and still NOT BE AN ATHEIST.

I do not know if he was an atheist or not.

He said he was not...and he talked about "his god" frequently.

That does not mean I MUST guess that he was not...but it sure as hell does not mean that a guess that he was an atheist is anything more than a guess.

Treat your guess like a guess...and we have no problem.

Treat it as absolute truth so that you can assert that an atheist has already been elected president and you will get lots of static on the assertion.

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@MattDavis,

Interesting map; it's the first time I'm seeing where most of the wealth of the world resides in percentages. Thx for sharing.

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But then an atheist, or atheism can never adequately explain how or why there is injustice? Or how these beliefs cause injustices, because they do not believe notions? But reject notions? Then there is no reason to believe it is true, or any different...

Prove to me how a rejection can validate/destroy an injustice...without showing me that you believe it is true...but because you do not believe it is true... 2 Cents

Otherwise, go kick rocks with your "rejections", but theism's are wrong, but I have no better solution...

Cause it does not actually help anything, it just points out what you think everyone else is doing wrong...and why you think it...but does not explain why you think it is wrong, or how you think you could help them...And it still makes you apart of the problem, not solution...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Spade wrote:

But then an atheist, or atheism can never adequately explain how or why there is injustice?

I do disagree, but this is a little beside the point. The point is that injustice exists. The better question (from my view) is how do we help that?
Do we ask that God lets it all work out in the afterlife, or do we face this life and strive for better?
The Kingdom of God/Heaven is upon YOU.
Perhaps the message is to take responsibility HERE.
This is not a call to "justice" this is a call for compassion and responsibility.
Here is a verse you might find helpful:
Translated from what is known as Luke 8:10 (translations of course involving multiple scriptural fragments and "verified" by comparisons with each other).
Jesus said, “·You have been chosen [ It has been granted/given to you] to know [understand] the secrets [mysteries] about the kingdom of God. But I use stories [parables] to speak to other people [the rest] so that:

‘They will look [see], but they may not see [perceive].
They will listen [hear], but they may not understand.

It is ironic to me to hear a Christian mention "justice". Justice is not exactly a conceptual theme which Jesus apparently had much sympathy for (when evaluated by the words attributed to him).
Is dying on the cross not a strong enough message to convey that?
Let's ensure that the whole world is not blinded. (Matthew 5:38).

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@MattDavis,

Thanks for the post...and I agree with much of what you had to say...Your first question, is what I was trying to convey to another...

I do not think it does anything to explain what someone thinks or believes others are doing wrong, if they are then not also interested in explaining how they think or believe they can actually help someone, Or why they believe others may be incorrect...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

It's called rationalization.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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