Atheists... Your life is pointless

@MattDavis,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5282094)
I do think it highly unlikely that an outed atheist would be elected US president anytime soon.

I think that is what everyone is getting at here, Matt.

Obviously a person could be a closet atheist (as FDR was often accused of being)...and be elected. But an avowed atheist has precious little chance of ever getting on a ticket, let alone being elected.

The fact that Jefferson declined to engage in debate on the issue with his opponents suggests that he was politically astute.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I already did. Read the entire book, Jefferson and Religion, if you can, instead of poking around in the dark and making assumptions.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5282101)
Come on he was charge in the papers of the time with being an atheist and his writings show a contempt toward both religions and priests and yet you think that a large percent of the population did not view him as an atheist!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no idea of what a large percentage of the (voting) population thought about his religious "beliefs"...and I suspect neither do you.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Re: MattDavis (Post 5282103)
You can split hairs all you care to as once more he was viewed as an atheist by a large percent of the population including other founding fathers

You know that how????

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@MattDavis,

Quote:

I do think it highly unlikely that an outed atheist would be elected US president anytime soon.

Jefferson was an outed atheist or at least consider such and he was president so facts are facts.

Quote:

To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820

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@BillRM,

This is what I wrote Bill--

Quote:

But anybody, it is said, can become President of the USA except an atheist.

Note the "it is said". Mr Jefferson has nothing to do with it.

I imagine that all presidents are atheists in fact but, like Roman Emperors, know the value of going through the motions required by the religions of their followers. Mrs Thatcher was not very convincing I'm afraid.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I have no idea of what a large percentage of the (voting) population thought about his religious "beliefs"...and I suspect neither do you

Half the newspapers and a large fraction of the ministers in the country was attacking him for being an atheist something he never denial and because there was no modern polls you think that a large percent of the voters did not give credit to half the newspapers and their minsters in the nation?.

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@BillRM,

Did you actually read what Jefferson wrote there?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Half the newspapers in the counties was attacking him for being an atheist...

You can substantiate that of course?????

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@BillRM,

You know, anyone can easily take some fragmented quote out of context and make up whatever they want to hear. You just proved my point.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

you can substantiate that of course?????

LOL so you wish a poll on the positions of all the newspapers in the nation at the time to be sure it was 50 percent and not 40 percents or some such?!!!!

Stop playing games..............

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank wrote:

I think that is what everyone is getting at here, Matt.

That is my perception, though people seem to be taking a very circuitous route in arriving at that point. Rolling Eyes

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@BillRM,

Quote:

LOL so you wish a poll on the positions of all the newspapers in the nation at the time to be sure it was 50 percent and not 40 percents or some such?!!!!

Stop playing games..............

Why don't you stop making assertions you cannot substantiate?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You can split hairs all you care to as once more he was viewed as an atheist by a large percent of the population including other founding fathers and he was president so the argument that no openly atheist could be president fall on those facts.

I am not splitting hairs, you are over-generalizing. Jefferson was elected president in 1800. The term "atheist" at that time and in America, meant what you and I would probably call "non-Christian". Even if you are able to demonstrate that "a large percent of the population" considered him "atheistic", this only demonstrates that said percentage thought him non-Christian.
Equally irrelevant in that, even if he were "atheistic" in the sense of it's understanding in contemporary American parlance, as Frank points out he was no political fool.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

What assertions am I making that I can not back up as there is no question that a large percent of all the newspapers in the nation were anti Jefferson and pro the Federalists and they was labeling him as unfit to be president due to him being an atheist amount other charges and that a number of ministers did the same thing.

1 Reply

@MattDavis,

Quote:

I am not splitting hairs, you are over-generalizing. Jefferson was elected president in 1800. The term "atheist" at that time and in America, meant what you and I would probably call "non-Christian".

Give me a break.........................

1 Reply

@BillRM,

A break from what?

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@Ice Demon,

Thanks ID, it works a treat Smile

1 Reply

@MattDavis,

Jefferson was charge by Federal newspapers of being an atheist. The Federal newspapers were roughly half of all the newspapers of the time and consider an atheist by a large fraction of the then population in the normal meaning of the term something he never denial and the word atheist mean the same thing in 1800s as it does today.

He was still elected President so the argument that no one who is consider an atheist can be President fall on the fact that the third president got elected.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

....and consider an atheist by a large fraction of the then population in the normal meaning of the term something he never denial and the word atheist mean the same thing in 1800s as it does today.

Do you find it strange that Jefferson did not go out of his way to declare?

Hypothetical Jefferson wrote:

Well you know.... 200 years from now, I predict that the term "atheist" will carry a different meaning... therefore I would like to go on record as saying that:
"If in the future, the meaning of 'atheist' changes, your accusations will no longer be accurate."

0 Replies

Atheists... Your life is pointless

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