Atheists... Your life is pointless

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

The ways you make it sound by how you try to explain that people are sociopathic/psychopathic...etc...Sounds like even after you acknowledge that we evolved from nothing, or absolute zero...Or had a value of "0"...It sounds like after you acknowledge you think we have evolved from nothingness, you still think we still have a value of zero, or a negative value...Which is just not simply possible...If even one person does something just to try to be nice, it gives all of humanity a higher quantitative value higher than zero forever...

Spades Why would you think this when I value you as a 100 on a scale of 1 to 100 the same way I value my own mother?

I care about you my mother and everyone else even though I may I have to protect myself from them if the are sociopathic.

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@reasoning logic,

I am just honestly, explaining what it sounds like you are saying to me, and others, because I also care about everyone, as well as you...I do not think that I, or you, or almost anyone actually is "sociopathic" like you do...and I am trying to understand from an empathetic way as to why someone would think that existence is sociopathetic, Or how existence could be less than "0"

That is not what I believe, it is what I believe you may be believing...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Hey guys it looks to me RL just likes to immerse himself on the mystery in Psychopathy Sociopathy n so fourth so he prob projects a little no harm done...RL always tends to exaggerate a bit... Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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.I do not think that I, or you, or almost anyone actually is "sociopathic" like you do..

Do you think that the young man who killed all of those kids in that school shooting may have been sociopathic even though he may not have meant to be but it was an act of nature or something that I am not able to understand?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

Hey guys it looks to me RL just likes to immerse himself on the mystery in Psychopathy Sociopathy n so fourth so he prob projects a little no harm done...RL always tends to exaggerate a bit...

It is nice to know that someone understands me when I can not even understand myself. Cool

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Nothing to say about my last posts Matt?

Sorry Spedius I didn't mean to neglect you. Sometimes I have to spend time with the others, including my other friends and family. I will look it back over when I get some time, if you have a burning desire for me to do so.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Do you think that the young man who killed all of those kids in that school shooting may have been sociopathic even though he may not have meant to be but it was an act of nature or something that I am not able to understand?

Of course I do...But like I have said above, sociopathic people are not indicative of human existence, because there are probably many more who are not "sociopathic" than people who are...

Do you think he was not sociopathic because everyone is? Or do you believe he was beyond sociopathic because everyone is? Or do you believe that not everyone is sociopathic (through you think they are) and that is why non-sociopathic people can interpret what sociopathacy actually is? (by making the distinction between correct, and incorrect and why, That others must be incapable of distinguishing...)

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@reasoning logic,

I will not be back for a while...but I will be back...enjoy your evening...

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I cannot help remembering a remark of De Casseres. It was over the wine in Mouquin's. Said he: "The profoundest instinct in man is to war against the truth; that is, against the Real. He shuns facts from his infancy. His life is a perpetual evasion. Miracle, chimera and to-morrow keep him alive. He lives on fiction and myth. It is the Lie that makes him free. Animals alone are given the privilege of lifting the veil of Isis; men dare not. The animal, awake, has no fictional escape from the Real because he has no imagination. Man, awake, is compelled to seek a perpetual escape into Hope, Belief, Fable, Art, God, Socialism, Immortality, Alcohol, Love. From Medusa-Truth he makes an appeal to Maya-Lie."

Jack London, The Mutiny of the Elsinore.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Do you think he was not sociopathic because everyone is? Or do you believe he was beyond sociopathic because everyone is? Or do you believe that not everyone is sociopathic (through you think they are) and that is why non-sociopathic people can interpret what sociopathacy actually is? (by making the distinction between correct, and incorrect and why, That others must be incapable of distinguishing...)

I see sociopathy in the same sense that I see other senses "you do not have to be permanently blind to be blinded for a moment all you need is no light or to much light in your eyes. Your hearing can have a hard time distinguishing a sound if there are to many other sounds or a louder sound than you are trying to hear or you can have a plugged ear or an infection.

Quote:

do you believe that not everyone is sociopathic (through you think they are) and that is why non-sociopathic people can interpret what sociopathacy actually is? (by making the distinction between correct, and incorrect and why, That others must be incapable of distinguishing...

I think that some people who can be antisocial at times can also be empathic at times as well. I see some behaving more one way at times than the other.

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@spendius,

Spendius wrote:

One might very well suppose that the great difficulties Roman government ....

I agree that there is a noticeable trend toward decreased birth rates with increased education (Europe and Japan especially). Roman Catholic teachings certainly run counter to this, especially in developing nations (while education levels are slowly rising). Self-identified Catholics in Western cultures do seem to ignore these teachings to a large extent (birth control).
The birth rate reduction in the rest of the world (not the 1st world) seems to be influenced most by the education level of the women in a society, and their ability to not be forced (socially) to have children.
I disagree that religion is the only factor keeping people wanting children.
Look at the adoption trade, or even babies being sold across national borders. Many secular families have children and adopt children.
Even if birth control were perfectly implementable, and teenagers could be trusted not to diddle each other, there would still be those who value parenting (for non-religious reasons).
I don't really see a decreasing birth rate in societies as a bad thing on the whole.

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@spendius,

Spendius wrote:

Jack London, The Mutiny of the Elsinore.

Naturalist romantic mumbo jumbo. Wink

Let's all return to a state of edenic purity... puh lease.
Next thing you know... you and JTT will be grunting your ecstasies while clubbing each other over your finger painting styles.

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@MattDavis,

I don't think you are really addressing the question.

Adoption involves taking responsibility for a life others have brought into the world.

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I disagree that religion is the only factor keeping people wanting children.

So do I. It is rather obvious. But are the others selfish? Do they trade the life that has to be gone through by another for their own reasons? The traditional one being looked after in old age. Or to provide more fighting and hunting men. Now we have not much fighting and hunting, and old folks homes personal validation comes to the fore.

Wouldn't a thinking, logical reasoner think about the life to be lived when nuclear attack drills were mandatory at the time he was doing his thinking or when he's already stretched with the three he already has. And has violent toothache. Is doing 10 hour shifts in the foundry and is being regaled hourly about the horriblitis he's going to get. Or has already.

The very fact that 2.1 children is the average proves that people do think about the pros and cons of the next one. They do a deal and the new life has no choice but to put up with what comes.

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I don't really see a decreasing birth rate in societies as a bad thing on the whole.

It depends upon the rate of decrease. And on other relevant things. Such as extending life expectancy.

I suppose the religious reason is to increase the number of souls in heaven. It must be underpopulated.

How do we make life worth living for those we choose to hand it to in so gratuitous a fashion? We saddle them with a $30 trillion debt. We wear out anti-biotics? We poison the land and the sea. We are rattling ICBMs.

There's is very little which pisses me off more than a proud father. I can understand a proud mother.

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@MattDavis,

And you leave JTT and myself alone eh? We are having a bit of fun, each in our own way. It's a bit like baiting a hungry tiger in a cage with a stick. Or a kitten with a piece of string. It's obvious kittens love it so I assume tigers do as well.

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@reasoning logic,

I understand everything that you are saying to me...Lets start it this way...Do you think that human existence is sociopathic? If you think that it is, then please explain why? If you think that human existence is not sociopathic then please explain why? And if you think it is half/half more one side/then the other side then please explain why?

My point is, is that you make it sound as though you think existence itself is sociopathic...And my point is, is that if you understand there are sociopathic, and do not consider yourself socio, then it really is not possible to then think that existence is socio, because you know yourself you do not find yourself to be socio, and it makes no difference what others do...Because you understand that people are socio because they do not understand existence, while you are not socio, because you understand you are not, but can also understand why you think socio people are socio...Or if existence is socio, then there really can not be a reason as to how anyone would understand socio, as we all are, and that would just be the nature of our existence, and it is not possible for you to try to then explain how existence is sociopathic, unless you are trying to find reasons why you think it is not...but can't think of any because we all know it is...and we can not lie about who and what we are...but then that still points to you understanding that existence can not be sociopathic just because some people are...because there are no reasons to ever go looking for something one thinks that they simply can not find...Or it implies they do not understand the concepts, or something about the concepts is not the full truth...

What person out there could honestly deny that there are sociopathic people or sociopathacy?, Except sociopathic people themselves? So why talk about it, unless you think that most/if not all are? While you either know or do not know this is true? And have to be either rationalizing your own sociopathacy...Or just posting information we all already understand as most would not consider themselves socio...

In other words, what is your main objective with the "sociopathacy"?

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@spendius,

Last things first,
Let me describe the way I would have structured that analogy.
I seems more of a bored Cheshire cat coyly toying with one tormented by the unobtained scents of calling.
Of course, I do not mean to prescribe anyone's craft.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Wouldn't a thinking, logical reasoner think about the life to be lived when nuclear attack drills were mandatory at the time he was doing his thinking or when he's already stretched with the three he already has. And has violent toothache. Is doing 10 hour shifts in the foundry and is being regaled hourly about the horriblitis he's going to get. Or has already.

This is an old question indeed.
We are not new to an era of thinking logical reasoners. Many mate precisely because of new dangers (not reasonably) the urgency to spread your legacy even into an uncertain future (perhaps consciously, perhaps not). What is one's legacy? The genetic seeds you spill, or the ideas you mold and transfer on through your words and actions. Is our desire to have "our child" distinct from the desire to have "a child"? For how many is this desire distinct, is it reasonable to distinguish?
I think it is not. Evolutionary trappings not ultimately more significant in identifying who is whom's, than snipped foreskins or adding a name.
As long as a desire for legacy continues so will the desire for children and the means of procuring them.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Code:.Do you think that human existence is sociopathic?

I do not think that reality is only one way or another I think that it is a big flux with many things taking place at the same time and I can only guess that some of these things are good and bad in your eyes.

Do you think that a Christian 300 years ago who was wealthy and had bought many slaves to work on his plantation looked at himself as antisocial? Do you think that he considered his buying of slaves was the reason that promoted others to go out and take them captive or do you think that he may have thought to himself that others would buy them if he did not and he could give them a better life than they had?
It is really hard to say what was going through the minds of people back then but I can only guess that they are like the rest of us and can find justification for anything because of confirmation biases and self interest.

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@reasoning logic,

Yea, but the bible authorizes slaves.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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