Atheists... Your life is pointless

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@Frank Apisa,

You mean you've not heard of Rickrolling?

Quote:

Rickrolling is an Internet meme involving the music video for the 1987 Rick Astley song "Never Gonna Give You Up". The meme is a bait and switch; a person provides a hyperlink seemingly relevant to the topic at hand, but actually leads to Astley's video. The link can be masked or obfuscated in some manner so that the user cannot determine the true destination of the link without clicking. People led to the music video are said to have been rickrolled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

What do you think Jesus would want one another to do?

Sacrifice the self. Reject this world.

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Does this help my message at all?

Not for me.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Well, I think that all understanding is an exploration.
In order to explore you must make some assumptions, the paths that you will tentatively follow (intellectually).
Differing assumptions are taken resulting in various methods of understanding.
One might take an assumption of a distinction between self and not self, an assumption of mathematical axioms, empirical evidence etc.
I tend to favor as more "true" the things that can be reached by various foundational assumptions.
If "theological" understanding, matches with "scientific" understanding, matches with "logical/mathematical" understanding, then I feel more confident in its truth.

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@MattDavis,

OK, thank you mate...I am learning interesting things you are saying, and I enjoy the perspective way I am understanding what you are saying to me...but I am taking it in in small steps...

OK, so what would be some examples of things that you would consider as assumptions one has to make? Or assumptions that are beneficial in trying to correlate a process of trying to find reliable ways to demonstrate the truthfulness of these assumptions?

Or could you try to explain this easier for me? And I think It will be easier for me to gradually understand exactly how you view things...

Quote:

One might take an assumption of a distinction between self and not self, an assumption of mathematical axioms, empirical evidence etc.

I think I understand, but it helps me to hear a person explain their own interpretations...Or any other assumption you think is beneficial, if this is how you would explain them...

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

You mean you've not heard of Rickrolling?

Nope. Interesting, though.

Anyway, music, for me, involves Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Luciano Pavarotti, Maria Callas…and the like.

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@Frank Apisa,

Moonlight Sonata!!!

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I glance in here from time to time, from idle curiosity. There have been so many "atheist threads" that I no longer find it interesting to participate.

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@edgarblythe,

Don't go away, Edgar. Matt has a question for you.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Well a very fundamental assumption one might wish to make is that "things" can be distinguished from each other. Is there for instance a difference between this apple and this orange. Is there a fundamental difference? Are they opposites of each other, what do they have in common.
Perhaps most import and obviously are they me or not me?
Can I start to construct a "reality" from the basic distinction of me and not-me?

Perhaps very selfishly I do think that there is a fundamental difference between me (self) and everything else.
This of course begs the question where do I stop and where does the rest of "reality" begin.

Do I have any clues that I might not be the totality of reality?
One might assume that everything outside of self is just self-created.
Would this make sense? Could something as simple as my "self" create something as complex as everything I perceive? There are also beings which behave in ways that I imagine I would behave like (empathy). Are these beings also selfs? If they are what makes myself different than those selfs?
I seem to have preferences, they act like they have preferences.
If my preferences have value, do their preferences have value?

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@spendius,

Quote:

Sacrifice the self. Reject this world.

Now when you explain how Jesus says to always think spiritually and not earthly, and to deny yourself, and take up your cross...

That in this process it is wrong to preach tolerance from a forgiving God in order to deny yourself and take up your cross? Or in the process of denying oneself it is better to preach of judgment for not denying oneself?

If one preaches judgement for not denying oneself to another, does this impact this person's own grace of taking up their cross and denying themselves, themselves?

According to Jesus/the Bible...

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@MattDavis,

I get what you are saying, and again I thank you very much...I am going to take some time to try to take that all in, in ways I can personally interpret all of that information in my own understandings...I will be back later mate...Very interesting... Wink

What avenue did you take to spark your journey on going down this path to examine the simplistic nature of discovering the differences of reality? And ways of discovering how to self attempt to quantitatively compare aspects of reality/non-reality? ...etc...

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@edgarblythe,

Frank wrote:

Don't go away, Edgar. Matt has a question for you.

I wanted to discuss purposes in life that do not depend on the assumption of God or gods.
Do you have a purpose you would like to share?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

What avenue did you take to spark your journey on going down this path to examine the simplistic nature of discovering the differences of reality?

That is basically the starting place of all philosophy. I don't have a really good answer for where that started for me personally. I as all people do think about those sorts of things. There is a huge literature of people who do the same.

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@MattDavis,

I don't spend my time saying, "What is my purpose?" I see a human as a product of evolution, an animal with wonderful sensibilities. We are born able to adapt and we procreate. We are I believe a mix of intelligence and instinct and are territorial to boot. We are artists or destroyers or both. Beyond wanting my family to do well in the world, I I rely on a kind of poetry and knowledge seeking to fill out my life. I have no expectation that some portion of myself will survive my dying. Much of purpose is likely an illusion, based in false expectations. Eventually the Earth and humankind will perish and I expect the universe will run out of momentum and change. I see any form of god belief, no matter how abstract, as anthropomorphism. Belief in gods can result in good or ill, as with any other human endeavors.

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@edgarblythe,

Thanks.

Do you feel as though you have an inherent value by virtue of existing?
Or perhaps by virtue of being human?
By virtue of awareness?
Or perhaps none of the above?

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@MattDavis,

MattDavis wrote:

Thanks.
Do you feel as though you have an inherent value by virtue of existing?
Or perhaps by virtue of being human?
By virtue of awareness?
Or perhaps none of the above?

I see me having value in the context of the here and now. Not so in the distant future. It is hard to be proud of being human sometimes. So much to sort through. Awareness perhaps. Art and poetry. Giving of oneself. But it's a dark/light sort of thing. As I celebrate life other humans extinguish the human spirit. What was the answer for Faust? Eternal striving. He never gave up trying.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I glance in here from time to time, from idle curiosity. There have been so many "atheist threads" that I no longer find it interesting to participate.

Yeah, it's just redundant and unproductive for me, too. There's too much negativity on the 'net about this for my taste these days.

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@MattDavis,

Thanks mate...I was asking you because I was interested in how you self discovered you were an atheist? And if it was a specific experience like a theist claims a conversion is? Or if it was a realization once reaching an age of reasoning that you may never really have believed that a God(s) would be needed to provide a purpose itself?...Like theists believe Gods are...

To try to understand what I think the similarities/differences are to try to compare them to help formulate how similar/different they actually are...In my own interpretations...

To better empathetically understand why some view forms of skepticism as more valid than faith itself...From a perspective it is hard for me to relate too as I have faith...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

No problem Spade, I appreciate your interest.

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...how you self discovered you were an atheist?

Not believing in God is not a matter of personal identity for me. I didn't leave team Christian for team Atheist. It isn't about an affiliation.
There was no single moment of "conversion" for me. I was a member as an adolescent of a fundamentalist "Bible Church". I was a bit of a thinker and a skeptic, however I did believe in the rapture and salvation hinged upon not having doubts. This was actually a very traumatic time in my life, worrying if my mother was late coming home because she had been raptured while I was left behind.
So there was certainly a sense of relief when I got out of that church. I still believed in God, though through a more "liberal" reading of scripture until I was about 14. Around the time when I began to read more non-fiction novels, particularly in scientific subjects. My parents are Christian, but they understand my position. They honestly had a harder time dealing with my vegetarianism which started around age 15.

1 Reply

Atheists... Your life is pointless

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