Atheists... Your life is pointless

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5257876)
You're the one who "doesn't know." From your standpoint, nothing makes sense, because other's can't discuss "I don't know" intelligently, and you're trying to make us answer your questions.

You said something about my guesses...and I asked you what guesses you were talking about. Was that the wrong thing to do.

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Not to change the subject or anything.... Laughing

How about the very very original OP?

Is their an atheistic (ie non-diety-based) reason to behave ethically?
What is the atheistic argument against nihilism?

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@MattDavis,

Can atheists have a purpose?

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@MattDavis,

Quote:

Not to change the subject or anything....
How about the very very original OP?

Is their an atheistic (ie non-diety-based) reason to behave ethically?
What is the atheistic argument against nihilism?

Hey, Matt.

Arguments for morality without theism seem to reduce to: We do what is best for ourselves...and most often, doing what is best for ourselves involves cooperating in society. The laws of society dictates that none of us murder or steal...not, in my opinion, because some god supposedly said that is wrong...but because society functions better if those things are not happening...and if society functions better...we all are better off.

Most people recognize that it is best for self...to cooperate in society. So a kind of morality is built from that.

In the political threads (in another forum) I often argue with the far-right conservatives that giving up some rights for the good of the many...makes sense...in a sort of moralistic way.

Of course, I am not an atheists...but I am a non-theist...and I think the question applies to us as well as atheists.

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@MattDavis,

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Can atheists have a purpose?

Non-theists certainly can.

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@MattDavis,

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Can atheists have a purpose?

For sure they have. They can keep the argument going that rejecting the inhibitions the Church applies to sexual morality is respectable.

I wouldn't insult them by suggesting that their personal circumstances influences their intellectual integrity.

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@MattDavis,

Every single person has a purpose mate...Even certain God(s) that non-theists do not embrace, but theists do...say that everyone has a purpose...Any theist who claims otherwise doesn't fully understand the concepts of their own God(s) that have proclaimed this...

If someone was created and had no purpose at all, it says that this God is not a God in the same terms we perceive...not that we could, if there is one or many anyways...

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Can atheists have a purpose?
For sure they have. They can keep the argument going that rejecting the inhibitions the Church applies to sexual morality is respectable.

I wouldn't insult them by suggesting that their personal circumstances influences their intellectual integrity.

How to disavow ourselves from personal circumstance?
Is it possible?
If it were possible, would it be preferable?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Of course, I am not an atheists...but I am a non-theist...and I think the question applies to us as well as atheists.

It sure does! Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I agree that most popular theistic religions and sub-religions teach that all humans have purpose. They are not all egalitarian however in the "amount" of purpose each human has.

Their is some difficulty with non-theistic religions because they do not necessarily place a de-facto value upon human purpose.

EXAMPLES
Satanism (actually a non-theistic religion, they don't believe in Satan) does not necessarily place an inherent purpose to all humans.

Some versions of Buddhism are non-theistic, however, and do place an inherent purpose in all humans, and in fact in all beings.

Please don't take those two examples as some sort of equivalence.
They are meant to show the contrast in the spectrum of non-theistic religions.

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@MattDavis,

I agree with you mate...and not that I am an expert in either...I would say that I think Satanism is a theism, but it refutes itself...really...in a bunch of different ways...and I would say that Buddhism could very easily be seen as an actual theism...And from the outside looking in, to be honest, it does not really make sense to me that it is an "atheistic-theology..." Only going from what some Buddhists have said, others interpretations, and my own...

How have you been mate? Good to talk again... Wink

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@MattDavis,

Quote:

They are meant to show the contrast in the spectrum of non-theistic religions.

They do not even have too do they mate? Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I've been good. Thanks. My birthday was yesterday. Got a little "tipsy" and expressed some resentment for fellow non-theists. You know... the usual Wink

I think that is a common mis-perception of Satanism. They don't actually believe in any diety be it God or Satan. The name was chosen by the founder to be provocative. The founding beliefs are more like a version of secular humanism, however a very nihilistic version of humanism.

Buddhist sub-religions run a huge spectrum from non-theism, to theism, to pantheism. So some Buddhist you would be right in calling theists, some in calling non-theists, others in calling pantheists.

Many views sort of break down to that 4-verse thing we were exploring much much earlier.

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@MattDavis,

I can't find anything I disagree with what you have said...but I would point out that I agree with you about Satanism, for the most part...But I think it may range as well...There are Satanists on this website who preach that God is the Devil, and the Devil is God...that is why I can see it has a theistic quality, just like I would say that anything that is not an outright rejection is...even if it is for people, and not a divine authority...It has theistic qualities (to me)

Example: There is a man named Peter Gilmore, who created the first church of Satan...I think it is located in NYC...and I am not positive, but am almost sure it is both personally/non-personally viewed as Satanism...And looks to be a theism...to me personally...because their mission is to persecute Christians...And the opposite of a belief is still a belief to me...whatever way one self labels it...and rejection means nothing at all to me...some things I think may be incorrect about atheism myself...

Happy birthday mate!!! I hope you had a great day!!

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

There are Satanists on this website who preach that God is the Devil, and the Devil is God

Spades I hope that that you know I look at you as a brother and love what you share but I also seem to fit in that category if I use the understanding of the bible. I would not worship a hateful being as depicted by the bible but I do see less moral acts caused by the devil than I do by the God of the bible. Does this make me a Satanist?

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Happy birthday mate!!! I hope you had a great day!!

Yes Happy Birthday day Mat.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I understand that the label Satanist has been co-opted by many and various other beliefs. Something that the founder of could have very easily predicted, and he might not really even have cared (nihilist).

I think this shows pretty well the effects of treating religion cynically.

Anton LeVay had a cynical view of religions and created Satanism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism
L. Ron Hubbard had a cynical view of religions and created Scientology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

I am actually attempting to discuss cynical views of religion in my thread based on a quote from Chapterhouse Dune by Frank Herbert.
http://able2know.org/topic/208593-1#post-5256517

So far the little discussion that has taken place there has been a little off that topic, but I mean for the thread to be broad in its discussion.

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@reasoning logic,

Only you can answer that question yourself mate...Do you think that that is Satanism? And is that a theology to you? Does it go against atheism to you? Or at least atheist-Christian? Or would you claim you are an atheist-Christian because you are actually what others would call you a Satanist? Who embraces the Devil as God? And maybe not really an atheist-Christian?

What do you think about it all?

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@reasoning logic,

Reconciling particularly accounts in the Old Testament with Christian understanding is a challenge.
I think that orthodox Christians have made a pretty good go of it.
I might recommend Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis for example.
He has a particularly clever way of dealing with the problem of suffering as well.
----------------
Thank you Spade and RL for your birthday wishes Very Happy

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@MattDavis,

Sounds interesting Matt...I will join your thread... Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

http://static.tumblr.com/dxnfrl5/twwlyqt2z/10.2.jpg

1 Reply

Atheists... Your life is pointless

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