92
   

Atheists... Your life is pointless

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 08:53 am
@spendius,
I presume that the down-thumber is concerned with the problem that if Zardoz's morality is the Christian morality it shows that Zardoz is a de facto Christian if not a de jure one.

The difference between the two being explained by a certain tropismatic stimulation being in operation.

I can't see what other objection there is to my post. If it is the objection, which I assume in the absence of an explanation that it isn't, then the down-thumb is an attempt to dictate the terms of the discussion and thus is invalid on a discussion thread. It is an abuse of A2K's facilities and of its stated purpose.

It being anonymous is its central weakness.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 08:55 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Quote:
One passage in the bible actually says that your true bliss is found in bashing your children’s brains out on the rocks.


Where is the passage? Then we might be able to see for ourselves whether it speaks for itself. We can hardly be expected to take your word for that considering what had preceded it.


I think he's talking about Psalm 137.

Quote:
By the rivers of Babylon,
there we sat down, yea, we wept,
when we remembered Zion.
We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song;
and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying,
Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem,
let my right hand forget her cunning.
If I do not remember thee,
let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth;
if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom
in the day of Jerusalem;
who said, Rase it, rase it,
even to the foundation thereof.
O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed;
happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth
thy little ones against the stones.


However, this is about the Israelites' hatred of the Babylonians, and the desire to kill Babylonian children. Or he could be under the impression that Lady Macbeth is a biblical character.

I'm surprised you didn't know this, what with you being such a big Boney M fan.









spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 09:15 am
@izzythepush,
I think an expression such as "the children of Edom" requires some research.

It is beautiful poetry and foots up to a warning of future revenge. That the "little ones" will be done a service in avoiding that revenge.

I suppose that in those days dashing the brains out on the stones was the least inhumane method available.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 09:29 am
@spendius,
Ain't Wikipedia wonderful?

Quote:
Edom was a Semitic inhabited historical region of the Southern Levant located south of Judea and the Dead Sea. It is mentioned in biblical records as a 1st millennium BC Iron Age kingdom of Edom, and in classical antiquity the cognate name Idumea was used to refer to a smaller area in the same region. The name Edom means "red" in Hebrew, and was given to Esau, the eldest son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, once he ate the "red pottage", which the Bible used in irony at the fact he was born "red all over". The Torah, Tanakh and New Testament thus describe the Edomites as descendants of Esau.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 12:00 pm
@izzythepush,
One of the arguments I have seen used to promote abortion is that it saves the children of the womb from a life of misery.

Obviously the argument, again, comes down to when human life begins.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 12:07 pm
@spendius,
ooooh for Christ sake...you are the perfect example on how demagoguery can cohabit with intelligence nonetheless...it is common sense that abortion should be avoided but not at all costs...by the way in all coherence why don't you become a vegan as well ?
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 12:17 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
There was no demagoguery Fil.

I have seen the argument promoting abortion that I mentioned used many times. So that's a fact.

And the difference been the dashing out of children's brains to save them from vengeful slavery and pulling them from their evolutionary niche with stainless steel sterilised forceps to save them from whatever it is supposed to save them from does depend on deciding when human life begins.

Both points are simple facts. Stating simple facts is not demagoguery.

Quote:
A demagogue (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/) or rabble-rouser is a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes in order to gain power. Demagogues usually oppose deliberation and advocate immediate, violent action to address a national crisis; they accuse moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness. Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, nothing stops the people from giving that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.


Quote:
it is common sense that abortion should be avoided but not at all costs..


Not at the cost of the male orgasm it would seem.

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 12:24 pm
@spendius,
...so bottom line your argument boils down to demagoguery is justified on the other side demagoguery experty...now you becoming an authority in sophistry ! Wink
spendius
 
  0  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 12:56 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I don't understand what you mean Fil.

I ought to have mentioned that besides there being no demagoguery there was no intelligence either. It's as simple as 2+2=4.

The other side can shift for itself.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 01:36 pm
@spendius,
Most of the arguments (NOT ALL) against abortion come from religious people who, when a little child dies of natural causes, claim that their GOD has called the child to Heaven.

If the aborted “child” is simply going to Heaven to live all of eternity in the company of that GOD…what is the harm done?

Seems like abortion is a sure ticket to Heaven…a “Get Out Of Hell Free” card (unless, of course, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, or some of the other early Church fathers are correct in what happens to unBaptized children.)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 01:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It doesn't make any difference; look at all the "innocent babies" who die from natural and unnatural causes. When god influences nature to have volcanoes, landslides, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, and fires, then baptism has no meaning.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 02:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
ci...that was part of my point. If innocent babies go to Heaven, as the most vocal opponents of abortion assert, then what difference does it make. What is the harm.

My caveat had to do with the teachings of Augustine, Aquinas and a few other early Church fathers who asserted that Baptism WAS essential to entrance into Heaven.
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 02:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
There was no need to bring religious people into the argument Frank. I certainly had not done. Did you engage in that nefarious trick for want of an argument?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a majority of religious people enjoy confectionary, playing golf and wiping their arses on soft, velvety tissues. Are those items off your agenda because religious people engage with them?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Understood. Mr. Green That's the reason I said baptism has no meaning.
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 02:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Baptism is an initiation ceremony into a congregation. Many societies use such rites for the same purpose.

Christening is the word when infants are initiated into a church.

Laurence Sterne, in Tristram Shandy, quotes in full the decision of the Doctors of Divinity at the Sorbonne regarding baptism by squirt applied to difficult births where the life of the child is considered at risk.

Mr Apisa stressed that " (NOT ALL)" arguments against abortion come from religious people. One such argument was put to you and the first thing you do is to have recourse to religious people.

Really--you should sue the schools you went to for failing to teach you even the simplest things.
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 02:45 pm
@spendius,
Hitler thought that the trains should run on time.

Are you all in favour of the trains not running on time because Hitler thought they should?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 03:18 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I ought to have mentioned that besides there being no demagoguery there was no intelligence either. It's as simple as 2+2=4.


I remarked an intelligent interlocutor not an intelligent assertion...the beginning of life may have very little to say on the matter as far as I am concerned...I rather situate the point right on the beginning of awareness which is the correct place we have to take on this issue to avoid sophistry and demagoguery among grown ups...of course, being you, I do well understand the irrepressible need you have to avoid getting bored, you facilitate the conflict just to feel alive and sound...I indulge.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 03:56 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There was no need to bring religious people into the argument


There also is no need to keep that part of the argument quiet. I chose to include it because it is a significant factor.



Quote:
Frank. I certainly had not done.


Ahhh...so because you do not do something I am also supposed not to do it????


Quote:
Did you engage in that nefarious trick for want of an argument?


Not at all. Did you engage in this sidebar so that you did not have to discuss the issue I raised?

Quote:
I wouldn't be at all surprised if a majority of religious people enjoy confectionary, playing golf and wiping their arses on soft, velvety tissues. Are those items off your agenda because religious people engage with them?


You really are playing close to the edge, Spendius. Try relaxing. Either discuss the item raised...or do not.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 03:57 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Hitler thought that the trains should run on time.

Are you all in favour of the trains not running on time because Hitler thought they should?


Oh my...Hitler!

You are stretching, Spendius. My comment must have hit home for some reason.
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2012 04:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Your method of debate Frank is hopeless. If it works where you are then all I can say is that it is fortunate for you.

You couldn't hit home with me if I was a barn door and you had a Sherman tank at 20 yards.

The discussion did not involve any religious people or questions. You introduced those for want of an argument. It is an atheist thread. I am an atheist. What does what religious people think or do have to do with my posts? They lost the argument back in the 70s. And again in the election.

Ovid taught me that abortion was wrong in Ars Amatoria, written before there were any Popes. Spengler said it signified the decay of a culture.
 

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