Atheists... Your life is pointless

@Pookie53,

I don't mean to mock you in any way at all, i admire your strength in your faith and the fact you are going it alone against so many atheists. I honestly respect that.

What's more, we are essentially agreed.

1. You believe the Jews deserve the Holy Land because an old book written by Jews says that God said they could have it.
2. You believe the miracles mentioned in the old book written by Jews who were trying to muster support for their movement actually happened.

So if all your evidence is based on the bible, nobody will ever be able to disprove you are wrong. We are agreeing that logic will never convince you to abandon God because belief in God is not based on logic.

Byt could you answer two questions...
1. Would you believe in God if the Jews had never written the bible?
2. Would God have existed if the Jews had never written him into history?

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@Cycloptichorn,

What kind of evidence would be enough? This is from the gospel of John

18Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

he meant destroy me and I will rise up again in 3 days.
Everybody wants a sign............. In John again, Jesus said to Thomas after He had been ressurected.
'Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

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@Pookie53,

They come from a lifetime reflection.

They were also modeled by an epidermic refusal of the religion the church tried to shove down my throat in my very young years, given the hypocrisy I perceived already in it..

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@cicerone imposter,

I never said morals come from religion.
I believe that when God created us humans he put in us the image of Him, that is a conscience, and the knowledge of what is right and wrong. the moral code as CS Lewis says

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@Pookie53,

Pookie wrote:

So tell me , where exactly did your morals come from?

I can't speak for Francis, but I'll answer your question any way. My morals come from three major sources:

enlightened self-interest as opposed to greed -- I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine;
empathy, generosity, and kindness -- I just enjoy seeing people happy, hate to see them suffer, and can usually tell how they're feeling;
the experience that the moral issues arising from the first two points tend to hang together systematically; they lend themselves to logical reasoning.

I suspect that the sources of your morality are similar ones. I would be scared of you if you considered the Bible the ultimate spring from which all morality flows.

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@iamsam82,

1. If there was no Bible then I am not sure how I would know who God is. Unless He showed Himself to me in some other way. But there is a Bible.
2. God IS and is not dependant on people to write Him into existence. He breathed them into existence.

And no, you cannot convince me that God does not exist.

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@Pookie53,

Pookie53 wrote:

What kind of evidence would be enough? This is from the gospel of John

18Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

he meant destroy me and I will rise up again in 3 days.
Everybody wants a sign............. In John again, Jesus said to Thomas after He had been ressurected.
'Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Nothing from the Bible is 'evidence,' as you weren't there and have no clue if it was made up, exaggerated, or what.

Yes, I would like to see something miraculous happen in our modern time to be convinced. Funny how those keep on not happening.

Cycloptichorn

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@Francis,

I believe they were implanted in you at conception as a human.
Please stop copping out and blaming fallible humans for being hypocrites. THEY are not God. Jesus didn't say follow my disciples He said FOLLOW ME

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@Cycloptichorn,

Pookie53 wrote:

What kind of evidence would be enough?

I repeat the standard suggested by David Hume: Evidence for any given miracle is sufficient if the miracle not having happened would be an even greater miracle, given the evidence for it. Is this standard of evidence acceptable for you?

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@Pookie53,

I feel that you are being upset because you perceive some inanity in your arguments.

These hypocrite people pretend to know god and what is better to me..

Well, if Jesus stops by and he really is what you pretend him to be, I'll follow him..

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@Thomas,

I still maintain that your knowledge of good and bad came from God and are intrinsic in being a human being created by God. You cannot prove me wrong either.

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@Cycloptichorn,

how can I put this nicely.....because I do want to be kind.
You wouldn't know a miracle if it bit you in the butt.
Oops I guess that was not nice. I am sorry. I am really trying not to be baited and hooked. Smile

Its' tough though

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@Pookie53,

I wouldn't argue against your point that my knowledge of good and bad is intrinsic to being a human -- at least to a large part. But there's no good evidence that human beings were created by god. That part of your argument is a fantasy that you haven't offered any evidence for.

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@Pookie53,

Pookie53 wrote:

how can I put this nicely.....because I do want to be kind.
You wouldn't know a miracle if it bit you in the butt.
Oops I guess that was not nice. I am sorry. I am really trying not to be baited and hooked. Its' tough though

This is typically the direction such conversations turn to, when those who base their arguments on something other than evidence find themselves unable to meaningfully respond. You shouldn't be proud of such statements.

A 'miracle' isn't something good happening, it is an act which violates the laws of physics as we know them. I haven't seen much evidence of that, and no religious supporter has provided it, as far as I can tell.

Cycloptichorn

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@Thomas,

sorry that quote is such double speak I can't make heads or tails of it. Can I get back to you. My poor little brain is getting a little fried by the onslaught of people on here right now. I am trying to keep up.

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@Pookie53,

Your brain is already fried with jesus food. You must learn to go on a diet.

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@Francis,

Actually it IS a sore spot for me when people say that other Chrisians have turned them away from God with their hypocracy or dogmatism or whatever. It is so sad to me that you were pushed away from God as a kid.
I hope you do encounter Jesus and follow Him. You won't be sorry

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@Thomas,

Well ,the Bible says we were created in God's image and the sense of wrong and right , the moral code, is the part of us that is God in us. As opposed to the animals. this is not my idea but again CS Lewis in 'mere Chrisianity'

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@Pookie53,

Quote:

If there was no Bible then I am not sure how I would know who God is.

So are you not then saying that a book, without which God would never have existed for you (or anyone), is now the basis of your life. Not in fact God. That is secondary. It is the book you believe in primarily, for without the book you would not know God, as you know him, existed.

And who wrote the bible?
A canon of Jews right?

So that character, is the invention of them, of humans. Is their interpretation of that being not fallible? They are, after all, humans.Can you really have faith in a character in a book of human invention? Should I feel the same about Dorian Gray, or the BFG?

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@Cycloptichorn,

I am not proud at all. It WAS rude. But I cannot convince you with any Evidence of miracles because I am just not smart enough to get around your disdain of anything to do with God. You have already made up your mind.
I know of at least 5 people at my church who had life threatening health problems and the doctors could not explain why they got better. Is this evidence? I doubt you would accept it.

1 Reply

Atheists... Your life is pointless

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