Satan and good

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Is Satan, the Devil, good? Satan punishes the wicked. He does not punish the good. This would seem to make him good.

Satan also tempts everyone. The good affirm their allegiance to God and are not swayed. The weak become tempted and sin against God.

As the good are not swayed, it would seem that Satan is considered Evil for persuading the weak to do evil.

But God gave humanity free will and so it is each persons decision to be good or evil. Satan presents the choice, affirming free will, which God endowed on humanity. If a person chooses good ("Get behind me Satan!"), then Satan will do no harm. If the person chooses evil, as Satan tempts, then Satan will punish them.

As people are averse to punishment, Satan seems to be promoting the good. If Satan rewarded people for doing evil it would be a different story, but that is not the case.

This all seems to lead to Satan being good.

Kind Regards

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Can you give some examples of the 'good' you think Satan is doing?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Can you give some examples of the 'good' you think Satan is doing?

I thought I did in the original post.

Satan punishes the wicked.

Satan does not punish the good.

If Satan punished the good that would be evil.

Punishing the evil seems, well, good.

So Satan seems good.

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Satan is the father of all lies. He does nothing good.

He doesn't punish evil, he relishes it. He is consumed by evil and consumes good with his evil.

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jstark wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Can you give some examples of the 'good' you think Satan is doing?

I thought I did in the original post.

Satan punishes the wicked.

No, Satan is the intstrument of punishment that god uses to punish the wicked.

Quote:

Satan does not punish the good.

Correct. Satan tempts the good into doing evil so that god will use him to punish them when they turn wicked.

Quote:

If Satan punished the good that would be evil.

Punishing the evil seems, well, good.

So Satan seems good.

Flawed assumptions, invalid argument.

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Questioner wrote:

jstark wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Can you give some examples of the 'good' you think Satan is doing?

I thought I did in the original post.

Satan punishes the wicked.

No, Satan is the intstrument of punishment that god uses to punish the wicked.

Quote:
Satan does not punish the good.

Correct. Satan tempts the good into doing evil so that god will use him to punish them when they turn wicked.

Quote:
If Satan punished the good that would be evil.

Punishing the evil seems, well, good.

So Satan seems good.

Flawed assumptions, invalid argument.

Satan is not the instrument of God by any stretch of the imagination.

God does not use Satan to punish us. Satan does that all by himself.

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Quote:

No, Satan is the intstrument of punishment that god uses to punish the wicked.

I wasn't even going to call Satan an instrument of God but since you mention it it seems to support my argument.

Is punishment good or evil? If punishment is evil then Satan in evil. If punishment is good then Satan is good. As God uses Satan to punish the wicked then Satan, as an instrument for God's punishment is Good. Or would any instrument that God uses to dispense punishment become "evil"?

Quote:

Correct. Satan tempts the good into doing evil so that god will use him to punish them when they turn wicked.

Satan provides the choice to do good or evil. Humans make the decision (using God given free will). What is it in a person's heart that turns them to good or evil? It can not be Satan himself as if he could force people he would, instead he tempts. Ultimately it is not the corruption of Satan that causes people to do evil but the corruption of humanity itself. When people choose to be corrupt, God punishes them with Satan. Satan becomes Justice, and Justice is good.

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Flawed assumptions, invalid argument.

You'll have to do better than that. I don't see that you dealt with any of my assumptions at all, let alone even naming one. In fact, you strengthened the argument that Satan is good by making him an instrument of God.

Kind Regards

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Do you happen to have any backup for the assumption that Satan is an instrument of God?

From either one of you would be fine.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Satan is the father of all lies. He does nothing good.

He doesn't punish evil, he relishes it. He is consumed by evil and consumes good with his evil.

From what I understand Satan does indeed punish the wicked, in hell. Damnation and all that. Dante's inferno depicts various levels of punishment for different crimes. No good soul is punished by Satan, only evil souls.

So if Satan punishes only evil, then that would seem to make him good. If Satan punished those who were good, then that would indeed make him evil.

Kind Regards

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Well, since Satan is all lies and all evil and all he does is try to turn those that love God against God, you cannot call that good. Satan doesn't care if you spend eternity in hell or not. God does care. He doesn't want anyone to have that punishment.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Do you happen to have any backup for the assumption that Satan is an instrument of God?

From either one of you would be fine.

No. Thats why I did not make the claim, my question does not require it.

If the other poster was going to give it to me I figured I'd take it. But I don't know one way or the other how or if God "uses" Satan.

Kind Regards

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Ok, jstark, thanx.

Questioner?

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jstark wrote:

From what I understand Satan does indeed punish the wicked, in hell. Damnation and all that. Dante's inferno depicts various levels of punishment for different crimes. No good soul is punished by Satan, only evil souls.

So if Satan punishes only evil, then that would seem to make him good. If Satan punished those who were good, then that would indeed make him evil.

From this should one presume that you also would see a prison guard that abuses their position of authority to torture inmates as "good"??

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Re: Satan and good

jstark wrote:

As people are averse to punishment, Satan seems to be promoting the good. If Satan rewarded people for doing evil it would be a different story, but that is not the case.

This all seems to lead to Satan being good.

Kind Regards

But Satan does reward people for doing evil. That is the whole basis for Satan's ability to tempt -- do this and you will reap great rewards in this life. It is Man's short-sighted desire for immediate gratification that leads to the downfall, the yielding to temptation. This life is very brief. Eternity is...well...eternal.

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I always picture Satan as an extremely hot and sexy guy, charming, all attentive to your every need. Yet he's got the heart of a shark: stalking his prey with chilling detail.
Y'know those guys! Twisted Evil

If my conception of Satan is in line with Christianity; Satan is not good.
He just tricks you into believing he is, 'cause he's such a charming fellow and you want to believe him.

I love this line, even though I have no idea as to the source or validity of it "The greatest trick the Devil ever played was making people believe he doesn't exist" Smile

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Momma Angel wrote:

Well, since Satan is all lies and all evil and all he does is try to turn those that love God against God, you cannot call that good. Satan doesn't care if you spend eternity in hell or not. God does care. He doesn't want anyone to have that punishment.

It's one of the Saints of heaven who decides who is allowed into Heaven or not. Therefore it is the righteous of God who ultimately condemn people to Satans hell. Satan does not make the choice. This would seem to support Satan being an instrument of God actually, as St. Peter decides who gets into heaven or falls to hell. St. Peter does not send good people to hell, only the wicked. Therefore Satan is only punishing the wicked, which does not seem evil at all.

Satan does tempt people to do evil. But it is people who either do evil or not. People who resist affirm their alignment with God. Those who are corruptible are not allowed into Heaven and sent to hell. The only way I can see this as being bad is if the good were sent to hell and the evil were sent to heaven.

Kind Regards

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jstark wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Well, since Satan is all lies and all evil and all he does is try to turn those that love God against God, you cannot call that good. Satan doesn't care if you spend eternity in hell or not. God does care. He doesn't want anyone to have that punishment.

It's one of the Saints of heaven who decides who is allowed into Heaven or not. Therefore it is the righteous of God who ultimately condemn people to Satans hell. Satan does not make the choice. This would seem to support Satan being an instrument of God actually, as St. Peter decides who gets into heaven or falls to hell. St. Peter does not send good people to hell, only the wicked. Therefore Satan is only punishing the wicked, which does not seem evil at all.

Satan does tempt people to do evil. But it is people who either do evil or not. People who resist affirm their alignment with God. Those who are corruptible are not allowed into Heaven and sent to hell. The only way I can see this as being bad is if the good were sent to hell and the evil were sent to heaven.

Kind Regards

Well, you're partly right. It is not Satan who makes the choice. But neither is it God. It is Man himself who chooses whether to follow moral precepts or whether to yield to Satan's alluring temptations. We're always quick to blame someone or something else for our own shortcomings. The choice is clear. But, again, the desire for immediate gratification, no matter how sordid, gets in the way of clear-headedness.

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jstark wrote:

It's one of the Saints of heaven who decides who is allowed into Heaven or not. Therefore it is the righteous of God who ultimately condemn people to Satans hell. Satan does not make the choice. This would seem to support Satan being an instrument of God actually, as St. Peter decides who gets into heaven or falls to hell. St. Peter does not send good people to hell, only the wicked. Therefore Satan is only punishing the wicked, which does not seem evil at all.

Satan is allegedly the reason that all men slip into wickedness. So in essence, he turns them into wicked men (which is bad) then punishes them for subcumbing to his tempting. (which is, at the least, immoral). Sounds like "evil" to me.

Quote:

Satan does tempt people to do evil. But it is people who either do evil or not. People who resist affirm their alignment with God. Those who are corruptible are not allowed into Heaven and sent to hell. The only way I can see this as being bad is if the good were sent to hell and the evil were sent to heaven.

Kind Regards

God has granted something called Free Will. Yes, it is people's choice as to whether to give in to temptation or not. Yet it is written that all men will sin. Since god is not to be associated with sin, those temptations must come from the other side, ie: satan. satan == tempting man == man turning wicked == man suffering by satan's hand == evil

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fishin' wrote:

From this should one presume that you also would see a prison guard that abuses their position of authority to torture inmates as "good"??

The prison guard in this case would have been turned to evil by Satan and so hell would be awaiting him I guess.

But to actually indulge the analogy I don't think that Satan's powers can be abused as they are only limited, apparently by what God allows or humans can be persuaded to do. In other words, I am of the impression that Satan is doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing in hell where as the prison guard is supposed to hold a "Christian Heart", so to speak.

Now if Satan started abusing good people that would be different but from what I understand Satan has no power over the righteous.

Kind Regards

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Questioner wrote:

God has granted something called Free Will. Yes, it is people's choice as to whether to give in to temptation or not. Yet it is written that all men will sin. Since god is not to be associated with sin, those temptations must come from the other side, ie: satan. satan == tempting man == man turning wicked == man suffering by satan's hand == evil

That should clear it up!
The entire 'system' is mutually dependent. If Satan were 'good' then he wouldn't be Satan as such.

Devils and saints support each other. God and Satan are like two sides of a coin: they can not be seperated and remain 'a coin'.

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Satan and good

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