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Is This The Death Of America?

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 12:15 am
JustWonders wrote:

I wouldn't get too worked up about your elderly dropping like flies from malnutrition if I were you. I really think it's just an excuse for your "leaders" to hold meetings at expensive resorts Smile (It's what they do best.)

As for your "free" health care...if you're taxed out the wazoo, then it's not really "free", is it??? LOL.

You just keep thinking we're on the verge of collapse. We'll see who hits rock bottom first Smile


JW, I have developed a deep and abiding affection for you.

This post is an example of why.

Hell yeah!
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 02:23 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
I would like to correct you slightly, Amigo.

I think that America is about the only "democratic" western country that HE would be able to survive in.

The farce re. the clipped or unclipped voting papers would not have happened anywhere else, which also applies to all the "grey areas" re. postal votes and other lawyer type dirty tricks. If it HAD have happened in another Country, then the FREE press would have exposed this straight away, and there would have been uproar.

If Bush had got into office by fair means in any other country, and handled the economy and war in a similar manner, there would have been a vote of no confidence by now.

Bush only survives in America, because he has the media on a firm leash. Any journalist worth his or her salt must feel sick to their stomachs, at having to toe their Companies line so as not to incur the wrath of the White House.

Pitiful, really. "Leader of the FREE world....". That always makes me smile.
I know Ellpus, I know, I know. your right. Only were not smiling. Please think about the rest of us before you smile Ellpus.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 03:57 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
JustWonders wrote:

I wouldn't get too worked up about your elderly dropping like flies from malnutrition if I were you. I really think it's just an excuse for your "leaders" to hold meetings at expensive resorts Smile (It's what they do best.)

As for your "free" health care...if you're taxed out the wazoo, then it's not really "free", is it??? LOL.

You just keep thinking we're on the verge of collapse. We'll see who hits rock bottom first Smile


JW, I have developed a deep and abiding affection for you.

This post is an example of why.

Hell yeah!


OO-RA!

Another person without any substantial argument has arrived on the scene, I see..........

Nice attempt at deflection.... AGAIN,.... J.W.
I have noticed that the typical response from someone who has no sound argument against critics of GWB, is one of belittling in the first instance, followed by an ill informed swipe back at the dreaded foreigner.

This tactic is soon latched onto by other GWB lovers who see a fellow follower in need of aid, and the thread ends up WAY off topic.

I called GWB a pillock, and supplied links to prove my point. It's slightly disappointing to only receive an ill informed "ner ner ner ner" in response.
I was hoping to see the other side of the coin. Maybe there isn't one, eh?

The topic title is "Is this the death of America?".

So.......back on topic......

How do YOU think that the American economy is doing, JW? And do you have any authoritative forecasts to back up your opinion?
Lots of patriotic spin on your part, and that of a couple of others. Lets see some facts and figures from you, eh? Hot air and battle cries are not enough to get your country out of this mess.


Regarding your snipe "OK we will see who hits rock bottom first"

We WILL see who hits rock bottom first. I will look in on this thread (if I can be arsed) from time to time, and give an update on your current interest rates and unemployment figures. Feel free to do the same re. the UK.
I honestly hope that neither of our countries hits rock bottom.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, if only for the sake of the not so well off Americans, who will really be going through it if I'm right.

Here I am, a middle of the road in politics guy, trying to get across the message that the Republicans have got to watch their spending.

Who'd a thought, eh?
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 04:06 am
Amigo wrote:
"I know Ellpus, I know, I know. your right. Only were not smiling. Please think about the rest of us before you smile Ellpus."[/quote]



I'm not really smiling, Amigo. I apologize for my flippancy.

I still stand by my opinion of GWB, though.

I am in no doubt that this administration has been the worst possible thing that has ever happened to America. I sincerely hope that the USA learns from this part of their history, and is eventually strengthened by it.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 04:20 am
Lord E - it's "ferriners" and "lib'ruls"....well in a faux Texas accent it is...
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 04:41 am
UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES (USA)

I have no idea how this will be displayed, once I have hit the submit button....bu you'll get the drift. Sorry if it comes out all wrong.

Each block of figures is for a separate month, and should be multiplied by 1000.......i.e. 7375 = 7,375,000.

Series Id: LNS13000000Seasonal AdjustedSeries title: (Seas) Unemployment LevelLabor force status: UnemployedType of data: Number in thousandsAge: 16 years and over

Year Jan .. Feb .. Mar ..Apr.. May.. Jun.. Jul.. Aug.. Sep.. Oct.. Nov.. Dec

Bill Clinton.............
1995 7375 7187 7153 7645 7430 7427 7527 7484 7478 7328 7426 7423
1996 7491 7313 7318 7415 7423 7095 7337 6882 6979 7031 7236 7253
1997 7158 7102 7000 6873 6655 6799 6655 6608 6656 6454 6308 6476
1998 6368 6306 6422 5941 6047 6212 6259 6179 6300 6280 6100 6032
1999 5976 6111 5783 6004 5796 5951 6025 5838 5915 5778 5716 5653
2000 5708 5858 5733 5481 5758 5651 5747 5853 5625 5534 5639 5634

George W. Bush.....
2001 6017 6088 6132 6276 6222 6480 6580 7044 7146 7705 8014 8281
2002 8165 8219 8263 8589 8382 8379 8388 8318 8263 8332 8561 8691
2003 8484 8636 8493 8822 8926 9228 9024 8914 8961 8755 8651 8399
2004 8303 8195 8330 8143 8172 8228 8184 8018 8005 8066 8020 8047
2005 7737 7988 7656 7663 7647 7486 7497 7391 7661

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost ..(U.S.Department of Labor)
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 05:18 am
November 10th 2004.

"Fed raises again, but what's next? "

"The central bank said it raised its target for the fed funds rate, an overnight bank lending rate, to 2 percent from 1.75 percent. It had previously raised the rate in June, August and September."
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/10/news/economy/fed_rates/


2% as at Nov 2004



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"September 20th 2005"

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - "The Federal Reserve Tuesday raised its short-term rate target by a quarter point to 3.75 percent, its 11th straight quarter-point rate hike."

3.75% as at Sept 2005
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 07:14 am
So you can tout the wonderful health-care system in merry old England and Europe in general all you want, but when your flaws are revealed you get all het up LOL. Too funny. By the way, the article was from your much beloved "free press" Beeb - surely they don't lie?

It pointed out that the malnutrition problem was particularly bad in hospitals and nursing homes, so before you stick your mother in one, you might want to investigate....also make sure there's air-conditioning.

I was browsing the Growth Competitive Index chart (which ranks countries in order of their economic competitiveness) for 2005 a few weeks ago, noting that Finland is #1 this year, with the USA #2. I forget where the UK landed, but I actually laughed out loud when I saw France was quite far behind Malaysia! LOL.

So ... you continue to believe the title of this thread if that's your desire. Don't be surprised, however, when someone comes along to point out that in the areas of innovation and enterprise (both important criteria to measure economic growth and competitiveness) the United States does now and will continue to outscore ALL.

'Tis simple fact. Smile
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 09:25 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Do you think its credible that a posse, sheriff Nutbush out front, with rest of world in hot pursuit cannot capture one man unless Bushcracker is leading them a merry dance? Of course Bush knows where the binman is. Its much more useful to have him on the loose, ready to strike at american children any time anyplace.

You cannot produce an iota of evidence to support this theory.


Well unless I've missed something, we have not caught obl. How do you account for that? Are we still looking?

America needs an enemy like the communist threat. bin Laden and al qaeda fullfil that role. I dont deny they are dangerous people, but its more useful to have them on the loose imo. And I just said imo, its an opinion not the general theory of relativity.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 09:35 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Do you think its credible that a posse, sheriff Nutbush out front, with rest of world in hot pursuit cannot capture one man unless Bushcracker is leading them a merry dance? Of course Bush knows where the binman is. Its much more useful to have him on the loose, ready to strike at american children any time anyplace.

You cannot produce an iota of evidence to support this theory.


Well unless I've missed something, we have not caught obl. How do you account for that? Are we still looking?

America needs an enemy like the communist threat. bin Laden and al qaeda fullfil that role. I dont deny they are dangerous people, but its more useful to have them on the loose imo. And I just said imo, its an opinion not the general theory of relativity.

Well, in case you missed this day in school, people making specific accusations of greivous wrongdoing against others ought to have at least a shred of evidence to go on. I can accuse you of being paid by liberal special interests to post here, but unless I have a particle of evidence to support my accusation, it's just nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 10:02 am
ok Mr Bush and the US military plus most of the rest of the world are doing their best to capture binladen. Still not good enough is it?

How do you account for their chronic failure?

And more to the point, when did bin laden cease to be a US asset?
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 10:47 am
CalamityJane wrote:
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
How did this happen? How did a piece of offal rise to the highest position in the country?

I think it's a reflection of the dumbing of America.

No other country on earth has a populace so ignorant and uninformed.

Yep, it is the beginning of the end.



The question is: Why are Americans so ignorant and uninformed?



The public trough-sucking greed mongers own America. They need a monkey on a string to do their bidding--hence, they used the billions of dollars they grubbed from our tax-dollars to finance Bush & Co.'s rise to power. Bush isn't the people's president--he's the big money puppet and he serves their agenda.

Big money interests can't run the country and guzzel up all the money unless they blind the American people to what they're doing. So they divert attention away from the view of their slick fingers in the till by pounding divisive issues like the war on terror, the war on crime, the war on drugs, abortion, homosexuality, separation of church and state, and "activist judges." The propaganda machine fuels hate and controversy among the people to win votes and campaign dollars. Divide and Conquer. To the big money interests, the members of the voting public are merely useful idiots.

Why promote consensus when division is far more profitable? Why educate the idiots and lose their usefulness?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 10:59 am
Good points Deb.

I think that any system which bases itself upon greed will eventually produce such a result. We have to stop thinking about Bushco. as an abberation in the system, and start seeing them as a result of the system.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 02:51 pm
This might interest some: a four part series about the BRIC countries, their rise to power, and the decline of the USA.

The Changing Face of Global Power

Quote:
If recent projections are on target, by the year 2050, the USA will no longer be the world's biggest economy, although it will still be in the top six.


Future global economic powers will include Brazil, Russia, India and China (the BRICs).

1. Part One: Turning Tables
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/4287124.stm

2. Part Two: The BRICs Today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/4287286.stm

3. Part Three: The BRICs Tomorrow
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/4287292.stm

4. Part Four: What Could Go Wrong?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/4287300.stm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 04:01 pm
It definitely is the death of America we once knew and loved. The probability that it can return to what America once was will never happen. This administration destroyed America for good.

We have lost most of our allies and friends including many Arab countries.

We are now engaged in a war that sees no end with the prospect of more American soldiers sacrificed and $5 billion spent every month for whatever goals this administration seems to imply/claim. "Stay the course" is not a goal.

This administration has bankrupted our government from a surplus to the largest deficit in our country. We are not sure how many generations into the future our children will be paying on this debt.

This country is now known for torturing our prisoners in our military prisons. We have lost our moral compass.

This country now has the Patriot Act that takes away our constitutional rights to privacy and to defend ourselves in a court of law.

This country is now in a struggle to prevent fundamentalist christians to include ID into public school science courses.

This country is in termoil resulting from the incompetence of this administration to handle Katrina properly and efficiently.

Energy prices have escalated over 50 percent during the past year, and many on fixed income must decide on medicine, food, shelter or fuel.

Most home buyers are using creative financing to buy their homes. With interest rates increasing, many will forfeit payment of their mortgage, and their homes will be repossessed by the financce company.

With the huge government and private deficit, inflation for our future is a given. Many are sitting on home equities that may be lost when the housing bubble bursts.

Stock investments are down for this year.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 05:15 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
November 10th 2004.

"Fed raises again, but what's next? "

"The central bank said it raised its target for the fed funds rate, an overnight bank lending rate, to 2 percent from 1.75 percent. It had previously raised the rate in June, August and September."
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/10/news/economy/fed_rates/


2% as at Nov 2004



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"September 20th 2005"

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - "The Federal Reserve Tuesday raised its short-term rate target by a quarter point to 3.75 percent, its 11th straight quarter-point rate hike."

3.75% as at Sept 2005


Just an update, as promised.

DECEMBER 2005 = 4.25%

Unemployment remains about the same as Sept., i.e. 7.6.million.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 10:55 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
It definitely is the death of America we once knew and loved. The probability that it can return to what America once was will never happen. This administration destroyed America for good.

Gosh what a pessimist you are. Were you inebriated when you wrote this? Because if you were, I can forgive the idiocy of these comments as an expression of "in the cups" melancholy.

Run your head under cold water and come back and tell us that you truly believe

1) America is destroyed for good.
2) The America "we" once knew and loved is dead.



We have lost most of our allies and friends including many Arab countries.

Most of our allies? What allies have we lost since Bush took office?

What Arab countries are demonstrably less friendly to us than they were in 2000?



We are now engaged in a war that sees no end with the prospect of more American soldiers sacrificed and $5 billion spent every month for whatever goals this administration seems to imply/claim. "Stay the course" is not a goal.

What nonsense. How many different ways can the President explain our goals before his opponents cease braying the Democrat Party mantra?

More of the Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy and Dean "Big Lie" approach.

If you don't agree that the goals are reasonable or desirable, simply say so.

Why is it that Democrats are incapable of articulating what they believe the goal should be or what the plan for achieving any goal should be?

"Establish milestones" is neither a goal nor a plan.

As adled as Murtha appears to be, at least he has articulated an actual plan. It's idiotic, but it's something.



This administration has bankrupted our government from a surplus to the largest deficit in our country. We are not sure how many generations into the future our children will be paying on this debt.

I am not a fan of deficeits; nor am I fan of the extent of government spending this administration has launched, but remember the last crippling deficit we faced and how quickly it was turned into a surplus? Why do you suppose this one is going to prove so utterly intractable? Our country is not bankrupt, and we can return to a surplus situation in our lifetime let alone untold generations from now.

This country is now known for torturing our prisoners in our military prisons. We have lost our moral compass.

I haven't lost my moral compass, and I doubt you are about to admit that you have lost yours. You Libs crack me up. Long before Abu Ghraib, whenever anyone had the temerity to champion the moral leadership of America, you would descend like locusts to blanket the foolish jingoist with all the evidence for why America has long been an international reprobate: slavery, slaughter of Indians, Jim Crow, internment of Japanese, the bombings of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the murder of Allende, the backing of Right Wing Death Squads in Central America, Napalm and Agent Orange in Southeast Asia, CIA coups throughout the world, etc etc etc....

Now you have the nerve to argue that our country has lost the moral sheen you would never before accept?


This country now has the Patriot Act that takes away our constitutional rights to privacy and to defend ourselves in a court of law.

More nonsense, or are you seriously suggesting that the Patriot Act has resulted in a society where we have no privacy and we are unable to defend ourselves in a court of law? That's what you wrote. Do you mean it or do you acknowledge you were engaging in high handed hyperbole?

This country is now in a struggle to prevent fundamentalist christians to include ID into public school science courses.

The country can hardly be in a struggle with any group of law abiding citizens. There is a group of people who are in a struggle with another group of people relative to this subject, but that is far from the dire attack on our nation that you suggest. Since when are these issues not subject to public debate and the political process?

This country is in termoil resulting from the incompetence of this administration to handle Katrina properly and efficiently.

What? Katrina has come and gone. Whether or not they should be, the areas Katrina has ravaged are no longer front page news, and to suggest that there is a national turmoil centered on the aftermath of Katrina is ludicrous. I notice, as well, how you seem to have totally exonerated the Democrat Governor of Louisiana and Mayor of New Orleans. But, you're right, they had no responsibility for their citizens.

Energy prices have escalated over 50 percent during the past year, and many on fixed income must decide on medicine, food, shelter or fuel.

Balderdash

Most home buyers are using creative financing to buy their homes. With interest rates increasing, many will forfeit payment of their mortgage, and their homes will be repossessed by the financce company.

Most? What utter and absolute nonsense.

With the huge government and private deficit, inflation for our future is a given. Many are sitting on home equities that may be lost when the housing bubble bursts.

Our economy can handle some inflation, so predicting certain inflation doesn't tell us very much. Presumably, you are predicting catastrophic inflation, and that's (I'm sorry I'm being so repititive here, but you're forcing me) just nonsense.

Stock investments are down for this year.

What do you mean by this? The amount of money invested in the market? The number of shares purchased?

I would venture to say that on any and every aspect of what you might be trying to say here, you are wrong.

What motivates someone to post this ridiculously dark vision of America?

I can't help but think of you as politically bi-polar as I suspect your were prancing about with optomistic glee during the Clinton years.

0 Replies
 
 

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