Dept of Homeboy Security - Illegal Immigration UP!!!

DrewDad wrote:

Why do you hate America?

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To me, it comes down to one thing.

Do you want to BE AN AMERICAN or do you want to be IN America.

Those who want to BE AN AMERICAN come here legally and will adopt to our culture, find work and pay taxes. I want those people and will help them.

Those who want to be IN America, will come here illegally, will not adopt to our culture, won't work and won't pay taxes and be a drain on our resources. I have no use for them.

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woiyo,

Who decides what it means to BE AN AMERICAN. I think that many of the things you express on this board are UNAMERICAN.

The "come here legally" thing is hogwash. Americans have always bent the law to get ahead-- from the Boston Tea Party, to Rosa Parks to ending prohibition.

I agree with you about working and paying taxes. Although, working hard is not really an American trait-- new immigrants tend to work much harder than "Americans" who have been here a long time.

But the term "BE AN AMERICAN" is scary if it is not ridiculous. Americans have a love of freedom and a desire to succeed that is shared by almost all immigrants... but other than that Americans are a very diverse bunch.

Some of us celebrate Christmas-- others celebrate Hannukah or something else.

Some of us eat pork-- others of us refuse.

Some of us go to Hindu temple, others go to mosques, still others to churches and some of us go to nothing else.

This idea of forcing immigrants to "adopt" our culture is unAmerican.

You have a different lifestyle than I, presumably a different religion than I, you feel differently about rituals like the pledge, you probably celebrate different holidays than I, and a you speak a different language in the house than I do...

But I would never say that just because you are culturally different-- that you aren't American.

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Adopting to our culture starts with learning our language. I do not need to learn YOUR language in the course of business.

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Easy there Woiyo,

I have no interest in adopting to your culture. I already know your language. If I ever do business with you, I will insist that we do it in Spanish.

Your mistake is thinking that YOUR culture is the American culture.

I am just as American as you in every way (and probably more). I have ancestors who were on the Mayflower as well as German immigrants during the late 19th century and Irish immigrants from the early 20th. I was born here and educated here.

I have chosen a different culture than yours (but it is by definition an American culture). Spanish is my second language, but it is my kids first and it is the language we have chosen to speak in the house.

It seems to me that the freedom to make the decisions-- to chose which language you want to do business in, or use around the house, or which foods to eat, or which holidays to celebrate-- is distinctly American.

Woiyo, it is wrong for you to try to force your culture on fellow Americans.

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"I have no interest in adopting to your culture. I already know your language. If I ever do business with you, I will insist that we do it in Spanish. "

Then I would not do business with you.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
Nobody's making excuses. Everyone has a choice which is what being a free country is all about.

They can choose whether or not to learn English.

You can choose whether or not to shop at a particular store, or to talk to the manager, or to learn to speak enough Korean to get your point across.

You can choose to move; you can choose to stay.

If you want to complain about customer disservice, there's already a thread for that....

it's about a lot more than that, and you know it.

but since you guys don't live in l.a., there's not much point in me continuing to try to explain it to you.

i'm not angry with you, just burned out on the subject.

I live in NYC, and I agree with Drewdad. Do you think L.A. is a lot different than NYC when it comes to language? There are little pockets everywhere here that speak almost exclusive polish, or chinese, or Italian, or Spanish, or Korean, etc., and it doesn't bother me a bit. Why should these people be forced to learn english if they don't need it to get by?

Why should they have to accommodate you?

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kickycan wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Nobody's making excuses. Everyone has a choice which is what being a free country is all about.

They can choose whether or not to learn English.

You can choose whether or not to shop at a particular store, or to talk to the manager, or to learn to speak enough Korean to get your point across.

You can choose to move; you can choose to stay.

If you want to complain about customer disservice, there's already a thread for that....

it's about a lot more than that, and you know it.

but since you guys don't live in l.a., there's not much point in me continuing to try to explain it to you.

i'm not angry with you, just burned out on the subject.

I live in NYC, and I agree with Drewdad. Do you think L.A. is a lot different than NYC when it comes to language? There are little pockets everywhere here that speak almost exclusive polish, or chinese, or Italian, or Spanish, or Korean, etc., and it doesn't bother me a bit. Why should these people be forced to learn english if they don't need it to get by?

Why should they have to accommodate you?

They do not HAVE to learn the language.

However, do not ask the taxpayers to pay for street signs (for example) in multiple languages, do not ask taxpayers to fund multi-language public schools.

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Quote:

do not ask taxpayers to fund multi-language public schools.

You think there aren´t multi-language taxpayers?

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I haven't seen any street signs in any language but english since I've been here, and I don't know anything about any multi-language schools here. Could you give me a specific example?

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ebrown_p wrote:

Quote:

do not ask taxpayers to fund multi-language public schools.

You think there aren´t multi-language taxpayers?

Irrelevant.

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My nieces go to a bilingual (Spanish and English) public school.

We have a multi-lingual community with multi-lingual taxpayers who give it broad support.

Another good thing about America is that citizens in a local community can make decisions without intrusion from the Woiyo´s of the world.

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ebrown_p wrote:

I have chosen a different culture than yours (but it is by definition an American culture). Spanish is my second language, but it is my kids first and it is the language we have chosen to speak in the house.

ebrown,

Kind of off the point, but I was wondering why you chose Spanish for your kids first language?

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My wife grew up in Mexico and Spanish is her first language.

We figure that living in the US, they will have enough exposure to English. By speaking Spanish in the house, they are perfectly fluent in both languages.

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kickycan wrote:

I haven't seen any street signs in any language but english since I've been here, and I don't know anything about any multi-language schools here. Could you give me a specific example?

Certain parts of Florida (miami) have street signs in both english and spanish.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/print-narrative.cfm?destID=17&catID=0017020048

"Little Havana If you've never been to Cuba, just visit this small section of Miami and you'll come pretty close. The sounds, tastes, and rhythms are very reminiscent of Cuba's capital city, and some even jokingly say you don't have to speak a word of English to live an independent life here -- even street signs are in Spanish and English."

Several public schools offering multi-lingual classes.

http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommend/schools/bilingual.html

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Woiyo,

The streetsigns in Miami are in Spanish because the taxpayers in Miami who are American citizens want them.

Why do you think you should be able to impose your view about street signs on the American citizens who are paying for them?

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What has whether one speaks English or some foreign language to do with the fact that we have no control of our borders and illegal immigration is on the rise? Where the hell is the misnamed billion dollar boondoggle called Homeland security.
Is it some kind of joke that we spend millions exercising control of people coming in through our ports and airlines and have a virtual sieve at our southern and I suppose our northern border.

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kickycan wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Nobody's making excuses. Everyone has a choice which is what being a free country is all about.

They can choose whether or not to learn English.

You can choose whether or not to shop at a particular store, or to talk to the manager, or to learn to speak enough Korean to get your point across.

You can choose to move; you can choose to stay.

If you want to complain about customer disservice, there's already a thread for that....

it's about a lot more than that, and you know it.

but since you guys don't live in l.a., there's not much point in me continuing to try to explain it to you.

i'm not angry with you, just burned out on the subject.

I live in NYC, and I agree with Drewdad. Do you think L.A. is a lot different than NYC when it comes to language? There are little pockets everywhere here that speak almost exclusive polish, or chinese, or Italian, or Spanish, or Korean, etc., and it doesn't bother me a bit. Why should these people be forced to learn english if they don't need it to get by?

Why should they have to accommodate you?

i lived in the city in the early 80's. so i know what you are talking about.

still a different scene than l.a., unless things have changed a lot there.

__________________________

"why should they have to accomodate you?".

hmmmmm.... why don't we flip the question a little bit?

why wouldn't they want to learn the language of their host or adopted country ?

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woiyo wrote:

They do not HAVE to learn the language.

However, do not ask the taxpayers to pay for street signs (for example) in multiple languages, do not ask taxpayers to fund multi-language public schools.

Interesting argument. Goes both ways. Living in DC you can be on a Metro bus full of people whose first language is Spanish. I assume they are working and paying their taxes here. So why should THEY pay for street signs that are NOT in Spanish? Or why should THEIR taxes fund schools where any OTHER language than Spanish is taught?

Their work. Their money. Their taxes. Their schools. Their language.

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old, you forgot "their country". These are Americans you are talking about (especially in the case of Miami).

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Dept of Homeboy Security - Illegal Immigration UP!!!

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