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Is it dialect?

 
 
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 02:18 pm
Has anyone ever heard of the way some black people talk (at least here in america) called ebonics? Well I have.

My question is this: Is ebonics considered a dialect, an accent, or anything else?

I once got into a heated argument with somebody trying to convince them that it was a dialect, much like a southern accent, but he woudln't believe me.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,916 • Replies: 24
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music-lover
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 02:29 pm
CarbonSystem wrote:
Has anyone ever heard of the way some black people talk (at least here in america) called ebonics? Well I have.

My question is this: Is ebonics considered a dialect, an accent, or anything else?

I once got into a heated argument with somebody trying to convince them that it was a dialect, much like a southern accent, but he woudln't believe me.
I have, I think it's considered as an accent but I ain't sure about that, if you find out can you tell me because i'm intrested now, lol
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 02:34 pm
Accent is different from dialect. I'm not a linguist, but a dialect means something more than pronouncing words differently, which is the case with an accent...
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 02:40 pm
Sometimes it's even less than an accent, it's an inflection.
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fishin
 
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Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 04:31 pm
The primary discussion on Ebonics (aka African-American Vernacular English) is one whether it is classified as a distinct primary language, a dialect or slang. Because of the on-going debate many linguists now use the term "Ethnolect" to describe it. An ethnolect is dialect based on the speakers ethnicity instead of the usual regional variances.
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chichan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 06:01 pm
AAVE is a dialect of English just as Australian is a dialect of English, just as BrE is a dialect of English, just as the English used in Ireland is a dialect of English, just as AmE is a dialect of English, just as CdE is a dialect of English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics
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CarbonSystem
 
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Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 06:48 pm
Nowadays, ebonics doesn't only pertain to black people, I hear white people trying to talk like that too.

D'artagnan- Does that make it an accent, since there is more than just pronunciation of words that is different in ebonics.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 08:00 pm
CarbonSystem wrote:
Nowadays, ebonics doesn't only pertain to black people, I hear white people trying to talk like that too.


As far as linguistics goes the number of whites that have ebonics as their primary language is fairly insignificant. A "primary language" is the language the person first learned to speak (prior to any formal eductaion).

The overwhelming majority of whites you see using ebonics are teenagers who have turned to it to be "in". They didn't learn it at home or prior to socializing with other teens. They also out-grow using it as they mature. The use is forced as opposed to the natural use of ebonics amongst many blacks.
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CarbonSystem
 
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Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 08:10 pm
That is definitly right, so what's the consensus everyone?

What is the right word to use? (accent, dialect, ethnoflect, inflection)
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chichan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 10:03 pm
fishin' wrote:
CarbonSystem wrote:
Nowadays, ebonics doesn't only pertain to black people, I hear white people trying to talk like that too.


As far as linguistics goes the number of whites that have ebonics as their primary language is fairly insignificant. A "primary language" is the language the person first learned to speak (prior to any formal eductaion).

The overwhelming majority of whites you see using ebonics are teenagers who have turned to it to be "in". They didn't learn it at home or prior to socializing with other teens. They also out-grow using it as they mature. The use is forced as opposed to the natural use of ebonics amongst many blacks.


I agree and partially disagree, Fishin. The chance of any adult becoming fluent in a second language is poor indeed. But there's no reason that children can't become fluent in the structure of AAVE with the right degree of exposure, but like all other languages, the ability to acquire language drops dramatically as kids approach middle teens.

Asian kids, Russian kids, any kid plunked down in England, the USA, Australia, etc. becomes fluent in a very short period of time.

But I have to ask why anyone attempting to learn AAVE is any different than anyone attempting to learn Thai, Russian, Spanish, French, or Swahili. Are these then forced attempts?

AAVE is definitely a dialect. It clearly has its own grammatical forms.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 10:18 pm
Eubonics--Black English--is a dialect.

It is not mainstream English and children who want to succeed in the mainstream had better be bilingual.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 10:56 pm
I'd say it's a dialect seeing as how it involves grammar as opposed to merely accent or inflection.
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CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2005 01:18 pm
I'm no linguist, but I have to agree with InfraBlue.

Some parts of it don't even look like the English language sometimes, but that is true with most dialects.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2005 04:35 pm
chichan wrote:
The chance of any adult becoming fluent in a second language is poor indeed. But there's no reason that children can't become fluent in the structure of AAVE with the right degree of exposure, but like all other languages, the ability to acquire language drops dramatically as kids approach middle teens.

Asian kids, Russian kids, any kid plunked down in England, the USA, Australia, etc. becomes fluent in a very short period of time.


I agree completely but I don't think this is relevant to the discussion. Being fluent in a language isn't a criteria for it being a "primary language". A child could be born in Germany, learn to speak German and move at the age of 5 to Canada, learn English or French and never speak a word in German again but German would always remain their primary language. That's just the way linguists have defined their term.

Quote:

But I have to ask why anyone attempting to learn AAVE is any different than anyone attempting to learn Thai, Russian, Spanish, French, or Swahili. Are these then forced attempts?


They aren't any different and Yes.

Quote:
AAVE is definitely a dialect. It clearly has its own grammatical forms.


Agreed! Very Happy
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austinsdaddy0105
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 11:51 am
I would have to weigh in and say that I feel Ebonics would have to be considered a dialect. The grammer is different and words are jumbled around, which can mean different things.
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Eskimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 04:21 am
It's an accent, because you can speak the same language, but not sound the same, whereas a dialect would be an entire structure of language.
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austinsdaddy0105
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 11:58 am
Ebonics has its own structure of language. To take a well educated person and place them in a conversation with someone that is solely speaking Ebonics then the articulate one would be lost. Period. The person speaking Ebonics would be ok because they would probably be able to distinquish the English that was being spoken.
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Synonymph
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 12:05 pm
I grew up in Detroit. I've always believed Ebonics is a dialect. It's much more than an accent.
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CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 12:38 pm
I agree that it is much more than an accent.
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babsatamelia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 08:47 pm
I recognized your profile "signature" as the quote the younger brother used to wind up the history paper he was
writing before he was shot - in the film "American History X". It is a beautiful one and the film was very sad.
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