Survivor 11 - Guatemala - The Maya Empire

What method did you use to ask, Tico?

Thanks Ticomaya! (BTW I thought The Mole was the best reality show, as well. And the alphabet part of my licence plate spells ARNY. It's like we were made for each other -- if you're also a leftist, anti-gun atheist? No? Damn.).

Sozobe -- I forget exactly, but somewhere through this site I stumbled on a "contact us" or something. I do seem to remember it warned that admin responses would not be quick and questions/requests were triaged (my word, not theirs) IOW the greater the urgency, the faster they would respond. Since my request was not hugely urgent, I forgot about it ... until I saw Ticomaya's name.

Help Desk ticket.

Heh. Close, but no cigar.

So Cindi is gone. I wonder if it would have been possible for her to make a deal. Could she have said to the other players, "I'll give you the cars. But if one of you wins, you give me the car I gave you."

She was right to think that not taking the car wouldn't guarantee her a win. But she was wrong to think that her decision wouldn't alienate the other people.

I was anticipating that Lydia would go this time. The sands keep shifting. This is definitely an interesting game.

I was amazed at the decision that she made. Sheesh. Guaranteed three votes if she made it to the final two.

If I had been in Cindy's place, I definitely would have given a car to the other four players. I think all of them would have been left too overwhelmed with gratitude to vote her off at the next tribal council. Additionally, most of them wouldn't want to look or act like "scumbags" by voting off the person who just gave them all cars. Cindy could have bought herself a place in the final four. If she played smart, she had a good shot at the million.

However, winning the car, keeping the car, and constantly talking about the car shined the spotlight on Cindy. She was a threat. She was far better at challenges than Danni or Lydia and she hadn't stabbed anyone in the back making her difficult to beat in front of a jury. The others made a good choice when they voted her out--and they didn't feel guilty because, after all, Cindy won the car. LOL

Interesting episode last night...I thought a good argument could be made for each of the non-immune contestants to be voted off: Lydia because she's the least deserving to still be there; Rafe because he's historically done the best on the challenges (and the only guy remaining), Danni because she's the last one left outside the original alliance; and Cindy because, well, she couldda given the other 4 a car and chose not to. My theory is that Stephanie, Rafe and Danni might try to jockey position so that each winds up with Lydia in the final and thus, a clear win because Lydia is so undeserving.

If I had been Cindy, I wouldda offered a conditional gift to each of the other 4: I'll let you get the car on the condition that the 1st time I'm not immune, you cannot vote for me to go. That would have guaranteed her at least a spot in the Final 4 and potentially the final 2 if she won at least 1 or 2 of the immunity challenges.

I'm supporting Rafe to be the winner. He's played it the best throughout.

I disagree that giving the cars to the other 4 would prevent them from voting her off - look at Judd. He just gave two other people the opportunity to spend time with their loved one - Steph who supposedly was closed to Judd and was given the prize - didn't hesitate too much about voting him off right after that. These players are trying to win the million not just a car - they would vote you off right after giving them a car if they felt you were a threat.

I do agree that Cindy bragging about the car certainly contributed greatly to her being booted.

Yeah, Cindy should not have talked about the car so much.

Don't all the people in the final four win some money? She could have bought her own car if she'd hung out through one more episode. If she had given the other people the cars, Lydia would probably be gone right now.

Is the finale this Sunday or is it at the regular time on Thursday?

Boomer, The finale is this Sunday. What's TCOICBINB? Glad you're keeping it holy, whatever it is.

I'm rooting for Rafe. Never once has anyone I've rooted for won. I guess it's the curse of Roberta--similar to the curse of the car but not was widely known.

I thought the "no-win" curse was mine! Actually, I did have one favourite win -- Ethan from Survivor Africa.

I was surprised at Cindy -- thought she was playing a very smart game until the car. It was like instant greed overcame her.

It's an interesting final four.
Steph ~ fierce and able competitor, prima donna
Rafe ~ intelligent, nice guy with a competitive streak
Lydia ~ class clown, sort of masochistic
Danni ~ intelligent enough to have upset the pecking order without much notice.

Although the immunity prize can throw it wide open, I'm thinking of final 2 match-ups:

Steph/Rafe -- might be a near even split with the jury.
Steph/Lydia -- jury would vote for Steph
Steph/Danni -- ? probably Steph would win
Rafe/Lydia -- jury would vote for Rafe
Rafe/Danni -- jury would vote for Rafe
Lydia/Danni -- jury would vote for Danni

Note to Rafe: get rid of Steph (too much a physical threat) and work on teaming up with Lydia for a final twosome.

Danni is the sole survivor. She picked up her check for one million dollars this morning.

Rafe masterfully pulled the strings throughout the game and was destined to win until he insisted on voting out Lydia instead of Danni. Stephenie tried to explain to him that Lydia was no competition in challenges and that they were sure to win final immunity over Lydia, but the same might not be true about Danni.

Nevertheless Rafe insisted on voting out Lydia and Stephenie went along with him.

When Danni outlasted both of them on the final immunity challenge and Stephenie slumped to the ground in tears, Rafe gallantly (in front of Stephenie) told Danni that he was releasing her from her promise to take him to the final two. I suspect that he overestimated his own string-pulling ability. He was sure that Danni would keep her promise regardless, but he figured his gallant gesture would make himself look good and secure votes.

Inasmuch as Rafe had released Danni from any promises she had made to him, no one on the jury could be angry with Danni for stabbing him the back. Rafe sealed his own fate. Rafe made two fatal mistakes at the end and it cost him a million dollars.

Agreed, Debra.

Actually, I was having some muddled thoughts today about how one mistake common to all humans (I think) is that we ascribe our own personal morality to others when we try to guess their motives and reactions. If that's true, then it might explain Rafe's errors at the end after playing a very smart game. That, and the fact that after 39 days of competition in a physically-challenging environment, one might be a little punch-drunk tired.

I think Rafe will probably make a million dollars going around speaking about ethics.

I thought it was appalling that those girls ate that chicken. Of course, I've never been "starved" either.

He should have figured out that other people don't share his ethics when they ate the chicken.

He played one of the cleanest games ever. I'm sure we'll see him again on another episode.

I missed the whole talk it out show. Did anything interesting happen? Did they announce the next when/where?

Next survivor: Panama--Exile Island

I don't think Rafe is an expert on ethics. He tries to paint himself as a "good guy," and wants to believe he is a "good guy," but he falls short like the rest of us.

His decision to bring Danni to the final three rather than Lydia was totally self-serving. He had a promise from BOTH Danni and Stephanie, if they won final immunity, that they would take him to the final two. Lydia, on the other hand, was totally loyal to Stephenie.

In his RNO interview, Rafe admits his self-serving motivation:



When he gallantly released Danni from her promise, and she accepted that release and took Stephenie instead of him, then Rafe was guilty of "sour grapes."



Source

Rafe really didn't intend to "release" Danni from her promise. His illusory release was an empty "see how great I am" gesture--he still expected her to honor her promise--no exuses allowed.

If he was genuinely a nice, ethical person, he would have stood by his release and would not harbor hard feelings. If he didn't mean it; he shouldn't of said it. Did he really expect Danni or any other person on this earth to hand him the game and a million dollar prize simply because he portrays himself to be a nice guy? He had no ethical problems in stabbing his own alliance members in the back to get himself further in the game and closer to the prize money. Why should he begrude the fact that Danni took Stephenie rather than him?

Obviously, Rafe thinks a heck of a lot of himself. HE believes that HE was most deserving of winning the game. In his jury question to Danni, he asked Danni why she did the OPPOSITE of what she said she would do:



Source

Why does Rafe think he deserved to win more than Stephenie--the person Danni chose to sit next to her in the final two?

And really . . . if Rafe had been left starving in a jungle for 38 days and there weren't ANY cameras on him and no one would ever know that he ate the sacrificial chicken . . . don't you think he would have eaten the chicken?

Rafe, in my opinion, is more concerned with appearances rather than substance. He's not nicer, more moral, or more ethical than the rest of us.

I overestimated Steph's influence and underestimated the amount of resentment her maneuvering would create. In previous games, people seemed better able to get beyond the backstabbing and acknowledge when the game was played well. I think she played well.

Debra, I think each of the final players thought they deserved to win. Not just Rafe. However, I believe that when he released Danni from her promise, he thought that she would take him anyway. He took a chance, and he was wrong. Fact is, she might not have taken him even if he hadn't given her the out. We'll never know.

As for the chicken. If these folks were truly stranded in the jungle and truly starving, cameras or no, eating the chicken would have been understandable. But they were one day from the end of the game. Regardless of his motives, Rafe did the right thing.

Missed a finale again.

One thing I remember looking up last year was how much the 2nd- and 3rd-place winners won -- it is a lot!! I remember coming to the conclusion that playing for the #2 position is actually good strategy. It's not as all-or-nothing as it is made out to be. I mean, the #1 player gets a million which is more than the #2 player, but #2 still gets a lot. (I'll see if I can find the amounts.)

So I think #2 was about right for Steph. A lot of money for a game well-played, but too many iffy decisions (especially in terms of alienating jury members) to win the whole thing.

Here we go -- numbers from All-Stars:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1339405#1339405

$250,000 ain't bad! (Nor $175,000 or so for Rafe.)

Yep. Keeping the car was a huge strategic mistake.