Should the Brits ditch Holocaust Day

McTag--

Does your "peaceloving" garden variety Muslim, who isn't a terrorist-- hate Jews that much--so much that they can't tolerate a rememberance of the Holocaust?

0 Replies

leaving aside your pejorative remarks about garden variety muslims

i would say yes.

The Muslim Council of Britain (leader Sir Iqbal Siqarne) boycotts Holocaust Day in its current format.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

$.02

Having Holocaust Day seems very weird.

Calling off for Muslims is even more weird.

And, he did this in 2001?

Bad move. It's throwing pomp at anti-Semitism. Worthless.

I agree with Lash here, and this may be a first. Break open that barrel of porter, and serve double drinks to all.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

McTag--

Does your "peaceloving" garden variety Muslim, who isn't a terrorist-- hate Jews that much--so much that they can't tolerate a rememberance of the Holocaust?

I don't think it's about hatred of Jews, although they surely don't love them.
It's more like "they keep reminding us they're special, and now they've got an exclusive commemmoration day? What about all the muslims slaughtered by the Serbs? What about the dispossessed Palestinians who are being murdered" and so on.

So they want the commemoration of man's inhumanity to man to be more universal, and not confined to the so-called Holocaust (which in most people's minds refers only to the Nazi atrocities against the Jews, and their "Final Solution", genocide.)

Which is a fairly reasonable request I think.

But I prefer Lash's earlier suggestion to scrap the lot. There are plenty of memorials, museums, anniversaries. I don't think we need a national day as well.

0 Replies

Agree McT

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

squinney wrote:
Ahh. So it's really about politics and pacifying muslim terrorists? As in, if we give them a genocide day and act like we care about genocide all over the world, even when it's not Jewish people dying, maybe they won't bomb us anymore?

Squinney, what's all that about? We should not be so ready to lump the words "muslim" and "terrorist" together.

I wasn't trying to lump Muslim / terrorists. If you look at Walter and Benacres posts above mine on the previous page, I read them as suggesting there may be a political angle of pacifying only for the purpose of avoiding more divisiveness between Jews and Muslims, with that divisiveness being the root of much terrorism. I read it as suggesting we make a genocide day rather than holocaust day so we LOOK like we care. Meanwhile there is genocide taking place as we speak that no one is doing anything about. So, Genocide day would mean nothing in reality. It would only be a political move to suggest to the Muslims that we (general we) care.

If I misread why the government was leaning towards doing what was suggested I apologize. I get irritated with governments that make decisions based on how it appears for political reasons, rather than how it is.

0 Replies

Trouble is having started "Holocaust Day", you cant ditch it or change it without upsetting a lot of people. It was a mistake to instigate it in the first place imo. Best to leave it alone and lower its profile.

Squinney has a point though. In Britain it is most definitely "be nice to Muslims and hope they wont bomb us again" time.

Ditching Holocaust day is just one example of this sickening political expediency. Another is curtailment of free speech in the form of "incitement to relgious hatred". It will soon be illegal in the UK to say anything against Muslims which THEY say offends against their religious sensibilities (7 years gaol max).

EVEN if you genuinely did not mean to cause offense. (But offense was given). And even if what you said was FACTUALLY CORRECT.

Having just written that I cant quite believe it myself, but then giving religious offense is very serious.

(Of course invading foreign countries for their hydrocarbon resources is a trivial matter by comparison.)

0 Replies

Oh dang. McT and I ---on the precipice of agreement...but I think he misunderstood what I meant. I think it was looney to designate a Holocaust Day--but it's even more loony to quit it because of some whiny Muslims. (or any whiners)

<but, a close swipe with agreement was nice>

Steve-- "Garden variety" can't even be spun into an insult. It translates to "average," used to differentiate average Muslims with terrorists. I do like special credit for my insults, but I just can't rightfully claim it in this instance.

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I just heard some called Sir Iqbal Siquarne leader of the Muslim Council of Britain trying to explain why they want Holocaust day replaced. It seems remembering Jewish dead is racist as it does not remember Muslim dead...or something like that.

.

I recall vividly that six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis during the second world war, I dont recall there being any Muslims involved.

Holocaust day is the remenberance day for these six million people,it is not offensive in any way whatsoever.

Last year some turd of a politician (I forget which one) suggested that we should end the practice of putting the nativity scene in shop windows during christmas because that might offend muslims.

If muslims find us so offensive perhaps we should end immigration altogether

0 Replies

Don1 wrote:

I recall vividly that six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis during the second world war, I dont recall there being any Muslims involved.

It was really a small number compared with others - about 1,000 French Muslims it is believed, were murdered in the KZ's in Germany (this number might be higher, but deaths in France itself aren't examined until today as far as I am aware).
The number of by Nazis in KZ's Roma and Sinti Muslims is not clear as well, since their confession wasn't [always] noted (Sinti and Roma were the second but largest group to be killed by the Nazis: about 500,000 - in one KZ, 23,000 were killed in only four months).

In battles during WWII, there will certainly have been a greater amount of Muslim deaths.

<Edited missquotation>

0 Replies

An interesting aside re Muslim Roma and Sinti: in German KZ's they were killed, in Yugoslavia, some -later- survied, only because they were declared "white Muslims" and thus were considered as 'kind of Arian'. (Although, out of 300,000 Sinti and Roma there, only 100,000 survived WWII.)

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Don1 wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I recall vividly that six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis during the second world war, I dont recall there being any Muslims involved.

It was really a small number compared with others - about 1,000 French Muslims it is believed, were murdered in the KZ's in Germany (this number might be higher, but deaths in France itself aren't examined until today as far as I am aware).
The number of by Nazis in KZ's Roma and Sinti Muslims is not clear as well, since their confession wasn't [always] noted (Sinti and Roma were the second but largest group to be killed by the Nazis: about 500,000 - in one KZ, 23,000 were killed in only four months).

In battles during WWII, there will certainly have been a greater amount of Muslim deaths.

thanks Walter but that was a misquote. I did not write the above quote

0 Replies

should the british ...
i remember that early in world war II the "grand-mufti of jerusalem (?)" visited germany and was received by hitler.
i now recall that much attention was paid by the german press to the visit of this "ally" !
all this was of course unusual - but nevertheless exiting - to us kids.

managed to find an article on this visit, sorry it's in german only.

i think much of this went back to WW I when turkey was a german ally and german officers were embedded in the turkish army.
i have quite an interesting book by a german who had served as an officer in the turkish army. in the early 1930's he and his wife went on an extended trip through the middle east using an "ariel" motorcycle with sidecar and a "folding" boat - what in german is called a "faltboat".
even though this book was written in thearly 1930's is already gives a foretaste of what was later to happen in the middle-east.
the writer had become a "bahai" and gives a most interesting account of all the religions of the middle east.
(the book has been out of print for a long time. if anyone reading german is interested in looking for the book, it's called : "kreuzweg der welten" by a.t. wegner - i highly recommend it.) hbg

http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/antisemitismus/mufti/grossmufti.jpg

...GRAND-MUFTI OF JERUSALEM VISITS GERMANY...

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

thanks Walter but that was a misquote. I did not write the above quote

Sorry, change that Embarrassed

0 Replies

no problems, it was Don who originally misquoted me anyway I think.

back to topic

As I said I dont think we should ever have instigated a memorial day specifically for the victims of the Holocaust. I know I'm going to get into trouble for saying this but I would like to know what is meant by 'Holocaust'. When I was a boy the name was not known. I know Hitler would have killed the entire Jewish people if he could, but the fact is he did not. We do not know how many Jews were killed, a lot certainly along with many Slavs, political undesirables, social 'deviants', homosexuals, mentally retarded etc etc.

It seems to me the 'Holocaust industry' only got going in the 1970s with the use of the word holocaust spelled with capital H, to mean specifically the extermination of 6 million Jews in Europe. It seems that its used now as a simple trump card to block legitimate historical enquiry into what actually took place during those days. Further, and worse imo, it is used by militant Zionists as final justification for any ruthless policy towards the Palestinians, and discredit (if at all possible) critics of the Israeli government as anti-Semites or Holocaust deniers.

If I say I'm not sure if 6 million Jews died, does that make me anti Jewish, or pro Palestinian suicide bombing?

If I say the actual figure was somewhat less than 6 million, does that make me a Holocaust-Denier?

We should keep Holocaust Day, but broaden its meaning imo. But even if we dont, boycotting it because it's primarily a Jewish memorial, as the Muslims do now, is outrageous.

0 Replies

Should the Brits ditch Holocaust Day

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know