1
   

So English's origin is Hebrew

 
 
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 10:58 pm
I found out English alphabetics and grammar were originated from Hebrew culture long time ago, then modified by Greek and Latin as time passed by. Why did they have to borrow stuffs from Hebrew in ancient world? No wonder English has such an idiotic grammar which I feel hard to learn and use. Also the words are combined in theyr means, that makes English vocabulary hard to memorzie.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,872 • Replies: 32
No top replies

 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 11:00 pm
I don't know where you "found out" that English grammar and it's use of the Roman alphabet originated in "Hebrew" culture--but i suggest you check again--that's specious.
0 Replies
 
syntinen
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 04:53 am
Setanta's right, ps2huang; either your source was nonsense, or you have completely misunderstood it.

English grammar and vocabulary was originally Germanic; the structure of "Old English" as spoken and written between 600 and 1100 A.D. was very similar to that of modern German and Dutch. The language was then hugely modified by French, because for about 300 years after that, after the Norman Conquest our entire ruling and literate class was French-speaking, and by Latin, because for more than a millennium the language of educated people was Latin. But there is no Hebrew element in English grammar. None.

This mixture of languages has made the language rich, though this does make it difficult for learners. Because of it, English has a huge vocabulary, since many concepts in English are represented by words from each language: for example, if you want to say that someone or something is "like a king" you can use a Germanic word (kingly), a French word (royal) or a Latin one (regal); and each of these words has a slightly different nuance. There are also a number of cases where words of different origin and different meaning coincidentally have the same spelling and sound: e.g. "fair". (The adjective fair meaning "beautiful, equitable, light-coloured" is Germanic; the noun fair meaning "a gathering to buy and sell things" is from Old French.)

The only shred of fact in your post is that the idea of the alphabet was invented around 2000 BC by foreign workers (either slaves, mercenaries or guest-workers; we don't know) in the Egyptian Empire, who had the idea of taking some of the symbols of Egyptian hieroglyphics, which in Egyptian writing represented words or concepts, and using them to represent sounds instead. All the alphabets of Europe and the Middle East were developed ultimately from this invention; Hebrew is just the oldest one of these currently in use.

You do have a point that the "Latin" alphabet that we use isn't very well adapted to the sounds of English (since the Romans devised it in order to write Latin), and it might be easier for everyone if we had adapted it a bit more so that we had a proper letter to represent each of the common sounds of English, as the Russians adapted the Greek alphabet, adding extra letters for the sounds of their Slavonic language.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 05:53 pm
syntinen wrote:
Setanta's right, ps2huang; either your source was nonsense, or you have completely misunderstood it.

English grammar and vocabulary was originally Germanic; the structure of "Old English" as spoken and written between 600 and 1100 A.D. was very similar to that of modern German and Dutch. The language was then hugely modified by French, because for about 300 years after that, after the Norman Conquest our entire ruling and literate class was French-speaking, and by Latin, because for more than a millennium the language of educated people was Latin. But there is no Hebrew element in English grammar. None.

This mixture of languages has made the language rich, though this does make it difficult for learners. Because of it, English has a huge vocabulary, since many concepts in English are represented by words from each language: for example, if you want to say that someone or something is "like a king" you can use a Germanic word (kingly), a French word (royal) or a Latin one (regal); and each of these words has a slightly different nuance. There are also a number of cases where words of different origin and different meaning coincidentally have the same spelling and sound: e.g. "fair". (The adjective fair meaning "beautiful, equitable, light-coloured" is Germanic; the noun fair meaning "a gathering to buy and sell things" is from Old French.)

The only shred of fact in your post is that the idea of the alphabet was invented around 2000 BC by foreign workers (either slaves, mercenaries or guest-workers; we don't know) in the Egyptian Empire, who had the idea of taking some of the symbols of Egyptian hieroglyphics, which in Egyptian writing represented words or concepts, and using them to represent sounds instead. All the alphabets of Europe and the Middle East were developed ultimately from this invention; Hebrew is just the oldest one of these currently in use.

You do have a point that the "Latin" alphabet that we use isn't very well adapted to the sounds of English (since the Romans devised it in order to write Latin), and it might be easier for everyone if we had adapted it a bit more so that we had a proper letter to represent each of the common sounds of English, as the Russians adapted the Greek alphabet, adding extra letters for the sounds of their Slavonic language.

I am frustrated, why didn't they borrow from Chinese since most common spoken language is Mandarin and Chinese history had a enomous history. I am not trying to be racist, but I really do have a serious problem to understand the concepts Jewish are thinking of. In my opinion, Jewish people's logic tend to have to do with god or whatever. Me, as a non-god believer, doesn't use the logic related to gothic; moreover, I think things as technically logical idea.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 05:55 pm
syntinen wrote:
Setanta's right, ps2huang; either your source was nonsense, or you have completely misunderstood it.

English grammar and vocabulary was originally Germanic; the structure of "Old English" as spoken and written between 600 and 1100 A.D. was very similar to that of modern German and Dutch. The language was then hugely modified by French, because for about 300 years after that, after the Norman Conquest our entire ruling and literate class was French-speaking, and by Latin, because for more than a millennium the language of educated people was Latin. But there is no Hebrew element in English grammar. None.

This mixture of languages has made the language rich, though this does make it difficult for learners. Because of it, English has a huge vocabulary, since many concepts in English are represented by words from each language: for example, if you want to say that someone or something is "like a king" you can use a Germanic word (kingly), a French word (royal) or a Latin one (regal); and each of these words has a slightly different nuance. There are also a number of cases where words of different origin and different meaning coincidentally have the same spelling and sound: e.g. "fair". (The adjective fair meaning "beautiful, equitable, light-coloured" is Germanic; the noun fair meaning "a gathering to buy and sell things" is from Old French.)

The only shred of fact in your post is that the idea of the alphabet was invented around 2000 BC by foreign workers (either slaves, mercenaries or guest-workers; we don't know) in the Egyptian Empire, who had the idea of taking some of the symbols of Egyptian hieroglyphics, which in Egyptian writing represented words or concepts, and using them to represent sounds instead. All the alphabets of Europe and the Middle East were developed ultimately from this invention; Hebrew is just the oldest one of these currently in use.

You do have a point that the "Latin" alphabet that we use isn't very well adapted to the sounds of English (since the Romans devised it in order to write Latin), and it might be easier for everyone if we had adapted it a bit more so that we had a proper letter to represent each of the common sounds of English, as the Russians adapted the Greek alphabet, adding extra letters for the sounds of their Slavonic language.

I am frustrated, why didn't they borrow from Chinese since most common spoken language is Mandarin and Chinese history had a enomous history. I am not trying to be racist, but I really do have a serious problem to understand the concepts Jewish are thinking of. In my opinion, Jewish people's logic tend to have to do with god or whatever. Me, as a non-god believer, doesn't use the logic related to gothic; moreover, I think things as technically logical idea.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 08:07 pm
ps2huang wrote:

I am frustrated, why didn't they borrow from Chinese since most common spoken language is Mandarin and Chinese history had a enomous history.


Who is the "they" you are referring to- Europeans? Greeks? Romans? Jews?
These groups had well developed languages and written alphabets long before they had any contact with the Chinese people.

ps2huang wrote:
I am not trying to be racist, but I really do have a serious problem to understand the concepts Jewish are thinking of. In my opinion, Jewish people's logic tend to have to do with god or whatever.
ps2huang wrote:


What concepts? Can you be more specific and give examples as to what you do not understand?
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 08:20 pm
You have quite a number of things mixed up, ps2huang. As Green Witch has already pointed out, by the time Europeans even knew that there was a place called China, their written languages were already well-established. It would have been a little silly to drop a perfectly well-working alphabet in favor of Chinese pictographic characters. No European language is derived from Hebrew, neither English nor any other language commonly spoken in Europe. The concept of the alphabet might have been developed by the Hebrews but that is, by no means, certain. Most modern linguists credit the Phoenicians of Northern Africa. And that is absolutely all that modern European languages owe to Hebrew (if, indeed, they owe anything) -- the concept of the alphabet which was adopted and modified by the Greeks, and later further modified by the Romans. The alphabet which almost all European languages use today (Russian is an exception), the one we are using now, is a further modification of the old Roman (Latin) alphabet. As for your contention that "Jewish people's logic tend to have to do with god or whatever," what on earth does that have to do with language? As an atheist, you should know that it wasn't any god that created language, but humans.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 08:39 pm
Well, so English alphabetics its prototype is hebrew language?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 10:58 pm
Again: there isn't an English alphabet but:


Merry Andrew wrote:
The concept of the alphabet might have been developed by the Hebrews but that is, by no means, certain. Most modern linguists credit the Phoenicians of Northern Africa. And that is absolutely all that modern European languages owe to Hebrew (if, indeed, they owe anything) -- the concept of the alphabet which was adopted and modified by the Greeks, and later further modified by the Romans. The alphabet which almost all European languages use today (Russian is an exception), the one we are using now, is a further modification of the old Roman (Latin) alphabet.


Britannica says:

Quote:
Latin alphabet, also called Roman alphabet most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world, the standard script of the English language and the languages of most of Europe and those areas settled by Europeans. Developed from the Etruscan alphabet at some time before 600 BC, it can be traced through Etruscan, Greek, and Phoenician scripts to the North Semitic alphabet used in Syria and Palestine about 1100 BC.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 12:11 am
by no mean, that is certain?
What?
So you mean you are not sure if it's developed by hebrew?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 01:00 am
At about 12th century BCE, Hebrew is developing into an independent language. (It is believed that it could have been almost identical with Phoenician before this time.)

Correct, I'm not sure, if it developed by Hebrew, or whatever other language.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 01:41 am
I still don't get it. There were many language before B.C.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 02:05 am
Quote:
Language existed long before writing, emerging probably simultaneously with sapience, abstract thought and the Genus Homo. In my opinion, the signature event that separated the emergence of palaeohumans from their anthropoid progenitors was not tool-making but a rudimentary oral communication that replaced the hoots and gestures still used by lower primates. The transfer of more complex information, ideas and concepts from one individual to another, or to a group, was the single most advantageous evolutionary adaptation for species preservation. As long ago as 25,000-30,000 years BP, humans were painting pictures on cave walls. Whether these pictures were telling a "story" or represented some type of "spirit house" or ritual exercise is not known
.

The history of writing


Quote:
The Chinese and their descendants in the Far East followed the path outlined above in that their original writing was pictorial, then stylized. Gradually their symbols became less and less representational and more abstract. Now Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, and other languages of the Far East are written with the use of ideeographs. An ideeograph, or character, represents not a word but an idea. Some well educated Chinese can read Japanese ideeographs, and vice versa, without being able to speak the other language. Poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. English poetry is, of course, mainly oral..

In the Middle East, about 3500 years ago, a totally new development in writing appeared. The Phoenicians, the ancestors of the Lebanese, invented an alphabet. Alphabets are different from other writing systems because the symbols represent sounds, not pictures or ideas. Combinations of sounds make up words in all languages, so a set of twenty to forty symbols representing most of the important distinctive sounds in a language could be used to represent the words of a language. The Phoenician alphabet spread into Northern Africa to become the writing system of the Arabs and northwest to Greece. The Greek letters were further modified to become the Cyrillic alphabets of Russia and the Balkans, and the Romans, in their turn, modified the letters into the alphabet we recognize and use, called, sensibly enough, the Roman alphabet. Western European languages use the Roman alphabet, as do the written languages of North and South America which are, of course, European languages.


History of Writing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 02:07 am
More:
Introduction to the History of the Alphabet, Types, and Fonts
This is an introductory course in the subject of lettering and written language.
When language began to be written, a history of lettering and letterforms developed that can be a rich source for a student of art or language.

THE HISTORY OF THE ALPHABET, TYPES, AND FONTS



Evolution of Alphabets
0 Replies
 
syntinen
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 02:09 am
In the 1990s, inscriptions in what appears to be the first alphabet, dating from about 2000-1900 BC were discovered carved in a valley called the Wadi el-Hol in Egypt. The letters used are symbols from Egyptian hieroglyphics, but used in a new way to write the sounds of Semitic languages. The theory about this is that Semitic foreigners in the Egyptian empire, of whom there were a great many - mercenaries, slaves, businessmen, etc, from all over the countries that are now called Israeli, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan - found they needed a way to write their languages. Hieroglyphic script didn't suit them because it was designed for the sounds and grammar of Egyptian and didn't fit their language, so they simply took some of the hieroglyphic symbols and put them to a new use.

The Semitic foreigners in the Egyptian empire were not one tribe, but a whole assortment of peoples. So once this invention was made, all the peoples of the Middle East had access to it, and they learned to use it and adapt it to their own particular dialect or language. The Phoenician alphabet was one of these. The beauty of the alphabet, and the reason for its success, is that it is almost infinitely adaptable to any language.

There is an excellent book about the history of the alphabet, called "Alpha Beta: how our alphabet shaped the western world" by John Man. ISBN 0 7472 6447 3.
0 Replies
 
ps2huang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 09:06 pm
As the matter of fact, I don't think Jewish should be consider a art of European, because they look Arabian.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 06:37 am
What in the world are you talking about, ps2?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:31 am
What Hebrew? Hebrew schmebrew.

If you're studying English, forget Hebrew. It's not helpful. They're not related.
0 Replies
 
Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 05:46 am
Jesus Christ, Hebrew has nothing to do with english.

English is combaination of Latin, Greek, old Gaelic and the language that the AngloSaxons spoke.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 06:15 am
French too.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

deal - Question by WBYeats
Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Please, I need help. - Question by imsak
Is this sentence grammatically correct? - Question by Sydney-Strock
"come from" - Question by mcook
concentrated - Question by WBYeats
 
  1. Forums
  2. » So English's origin is Hebrew
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/05/2024 at 04:44:40