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Mon 5 Sep, 2005 08:25 am
It's my opinion that in 2006 we need to vote the bums out and by bums I mean republican and democrat alike.
We elect the people who have f*cked us. We need for independent candidates to rise up and we need some REAL new blood in Washington or I believe we are on the way to civil insurrection in this country.
There's one year to do it. It could be done. We could take back our country starting in 2006, followed by 2008. Our system is broken IMHO.
Again, no links, no fancy studies to post. This IS an opinion forum, and I'm throwing it out there. All you smart people discuss it.
The problem, Bear, is that there aren't any viable third-party candidates standing in the wings. If Ralph Nader were to run yet again, he would lose yet again. Guaranteed. I will stake any amount you like on that. Maybe Kinky Friedman, I dunno. You show me a good third party candidate -- and a way to get him/her elected -- I'll vote that way, sure. I've never registered as a member of any party. But my opinion is that while your opinion is certainly laudable, it's not currently feasible. I'll probably end up voting the Democrat, whoever it turns out to be.
I think Bear means not even Nader. No has beens allowed.
I agree it isn't feasible due to the financial requirements of national campaigns for president. However, Congressional Reps and Senators only need to be elected by their state.
That's a good place to start.
Grassroots is where its at.
I agree with Merry Andrew, though.
Beyond that, I think there are skills required to govern, which are obtained through experience like most any other kind of skill. I dislike the idea of having nothing but newbies in charge... I'd rather have a bunch of firebrands and then some old hands who know what they're doing, too.
Merry Andrew wrote:The problem, Bear, is that there aren't any viable third-party candidates standing in the wings. If Ralph Nader were to run yet again, he would lose yet again. Guaranteed. I will stake any amount you like on that. Maybe Kinky Friedman, I dunno. You show me a good third party candidate -- and a way to get him/her elected -- I'll vote that way, sure. I've never registered as a member of any party. But my opinion is that while your opinion is certainly laudable, it's not currently feasible. I'll probably end up voting the Democrat, whoever it turns out to be.
That's why I said there was a year to get some together. We need to take local government, State government and congress back first. For too long we have swallowed the idea that it's impossible to field unknown candidates for one reason or another. That's a snow job and we've bought it. Look at the result.
John Edwards was an attorney. He knows how to write laws. He had only been a Senator for a couple of years. He was fresh, smart and would have been a perfect third party candidate.
He's just one example to show that there is plenty of talent out there that isn't corrupted by special interests or politics.
blueveinedthrobber wrote: That's why I said there was a year to get some together. We need to take local government, State government and congress back first. For too long we have swallowed the idea that it's impossible to field unknown candidates for one reason or another. That's a snow job and we've bought it. Look at the result.
True enough but... who in their right mnd would want the job? What would make an honest, caring person want to enter the fray of politics and go through getting beat-up over everything they've ever said or done just to get elected to get beat-up over everything they will say or do?
The people we need in politics the most aren't the type that would be willing to take that sort of abuse. *sigh*
Unelectable, though, if we're talking President.
He did terribly in the debates, when he was supposed to shine. Too young, too pretty, not trustworthy enough.
Senator, fine, and he'll have four more years of experience and will be four years older in 2008, so maybe.
I like Obama better, of the two of them. And Obama was calling for investigations into Katrina by Thursday or so, perhaps he can really make a name for himself with that, be the caped crusader.
Agreed about local government, though.
It would have to be a totally new face. Trouble is, being new, the candidate would be an unknown quantity. Could turn out, he would be worse than the the regulars.
fishin' wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote: That's why I said there was a year to get some together. We need to take local government, State government and congress back first. For too long we have swallowed the idea that it's impossible to field unknown candidates for one reason or another. That's a snow job and we've bought it. Look at the result.
True enough but... who in their right mnd would want the job? What would make an honest, caring person want to enter the fray of politics and go through getting beat-up over everything they've ever said or done just to get elected to get beat-up over everything they will say or do?
The people we need in politics the most aren't the type that would be willing to take that sort of abuse. *sigh*
The people we need are EXActly the people who wouldn't want the job..... but took it on of a sense of duty and stewardship as a TEMP position. No different from serving your country in the military for a pre set amount of time. REAL leaders, IMO take the mantle of leadership reluctantly but with conviction, do their best, then go home.
The first thing that would need doing is for the system to be overhauled so that the opportunity to use position strictly to enrich yourself was destroyed. The next thing would be for people not to get their panties in a wad if someone feathered their nest a little. Everyone does that in all walks of life a little, but the only people who get called on it are politicians and then out of no sense of real moral outrage but as a mud slinging political tool by people who don't want to change anything but merely usurp that power by hook or crook.
If we don't do something soon then the next major change of government will be the collapse of it.
Hadn't seen fishin's comments, COMPLETE agreement there. Don't know how to fix it, but a real problem. We get the megalomaniacs because nobody else will put up with it.
Re: 2006
blueveinedthrobber wrote:It's my opinion that in 2006 we need to vote the bums out and by bums I mean republican and democrat alike.
We elect the people who have f*cked us. We need for independent candidates to rise up and we need some REAL new blood in Washington or I believe we are on the way to civil insurrection in this country.
There's one year to do it. It could be done. We could take back our country starting in 2006, followed by 2008. Our system is broken IMHO.
Again, no links, no fancy studies to post. This IS an opinion forum, and I'm throwing it out there. All you smart people discuss it.
BVT,
Perhaps you could expand on what's wrong with this country? IMHO, new independent candidates won't do the trick because they still must abide by the processes and structures of this country (you know, those pesky little things like representative government, balance of powers, elections, etc). At the end of the day, the independents would be no better (and no worse) than the dems and republicans. Sounds like you'd prefer a new country altogether so I'd submit there are a large variety of them to choose from if this one's not to your liking.
Re: 2006
slkshock7 wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:It's my opinion that in 2006 we need to vote the bums out and by bums I mean republican and democrat alike.
We elect the people who have f*cked us. We need for independent candidates to rise up and we need some REAL new blood in Washington or I believe we are on the way to civil insurrection in this country.
There's one year to do it. It could be done. We could take back our country starting in 2006, followed by 2008. Our system is broken IMHO.
Again, no links, no fancy studies to post. This IS an opinion forum, and I'm throwing it out there. All you smart people discuss it.
BVT,
Perhaps you could expand on what's wrong with this country? IMHO, new independent candidates won't do the trick because they still must abide by the processes and structures of this country (you know, those pesky little things like representative government, balance of powers, elections, etc). At the end of the day, the independents would be no better (and no worse) than the dems and republicans. Sounds like you'd prefer a new country altogether so I'd submit there are a large variety of them to choose from if this one's not to your liking.
And no shortqage of loudmouths who think they might have a chance of moving me out. I was born here pal, lived here all my life and contributed to society. I have a right to complain if I don't like the way things are, and anyone who doesn't like it can fellate me. Not meaning anyone in particular of course.
How old are you may I ask?
I'm 44...and you?
I'm not arguing your right to complain, but suggesting the country is on the verge of "civil insurrection" is over the top. Frankly, if I was really convinced the country was headed there, I'd begin to seriously consider other options, if for no other reason than the safety of my family.
I understand now that your statement was simply a rhetorical ploy to get a rise out of conservatives.
Consider yourself successful.
not at all, I was serious as can be.
I'm 56, so I had my first part time job and was contributing to society when you were still shitting yellow, so noitch the rhetoric back a little sonny.
Not a problem, grandpa, but you've got a very odd idea of what constitutes over the top rhetoric. It's not me saying the country's on the verge of civil war.
slkshock7 wrote:Not a problem, grandpa, but you've got a very odd idea of what constitutes over the top rhetoric. It's not me saying the country's on the verge of civil war.
me neither bud, but I'm saying it could happen. You may sit on your throne swollen with pride like the whore of babylon if you like, but EVERY empire has crumbled eventually when the SAME mistakes were made that we are witnessing now, and pride and purposeful ignance has been the number one indicator in EVERY case.
Edwards is a whore, squinney.
But, I would work hard toward this goal if we could get some steam.
The structure is sound--but too many whores have risen too high and been there too long. Sonsobitches.
We DO need fresh people, who haven't been corrupted, who understand community service... Smart, thoughtful, honest people serving on a community level with the thoughtfulnes to move national.
I think if local people started backing school board members, great small town mayors, dependable local volunteers or managers, ....I'd love to vote out all the incumbents and replenish this country. Senators rotate every two years. The place wouldn't fall apart. No more legacy votes-- We're creating dynasties.
And, I really want to take Senators and Representatives down a few pegs. If they have to live like us, healthcare would improve immediately. Pay them, but cut their perks.
blueveinedthrobber wrote:slkshock7 wrote:Not a problem, grandpa, but you've got a very odd idea of what constitutes over the top rhetoric. It's not me saying the country's on the verge of civil war.
me neither bud, but I'm saying it could happen. You may sit on your throne swollen with pride like the whore of babylon if you like, but EVERY empire has crumbled eventually when the SAME mistakes were made that we are witnessing now, and pride and purposeful ignance has been the number one indicator in EVERY case.
And which mistakes are you referring to?
I too would work hard toward the goal. I'd even work hard toward building the steam.
Career politicians whose idea of public service is gaining personal power feeding their egos need to go first. I'm all for term limits in Congress, can't happen soon enough in my opinion.
Independent candidates in national elections have a tough road ahead of them. There's too much power in the two-party system. I agree that starting at the local, state, and congressional levels are where the grassroutes should begin.
Where do I sign up? :wink:
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