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How did the Germans rationalize their former support of Hitler after their defeat?

 
 
Reply Mon 22 Jul, 2024 05:00 pm
How did the Germans rationalize their former support of Hitler after their defeat in World War II and the details of the genocide became apparent. The people had to have an out in order to evade responsibity for the horrors of the 3rd Reich, which they had indirectly or directly supported?

We were stupid? We were naive? We were misled? We didn't know? He was so convincing. We were tricked? He lied to us. We were indoctrinated as children to be German nationalists. We were scared and angry and wanted to blame somebody.

We weren't strong supporters of the Nazis. We were more anti-communist than anything else, and they were much worse than we were. We had ideals, but some of the leaders corrupted those ideals. We meant well. Hitler meant well, but there were saboteurs who worked against the state and ruined things. It was the International Jews ruined things. There was great evil in the world, and they defeated our noble plans.

Anything else?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 1,333 • Replies: 26

 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2024 07:07 am
@coluber2001,
I never read the book myself but back in 1996, we scored the author of Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust, American writer Daniel Goldhagen. He spoke at our History Club meeting at Framingham State College (now known as Framingham State University).

The subject of the book covers exactly this thread.

Quote:
It was the International Jews ruined things. There was great evil in the world, and they defeated our noble plans.

Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories existed for centuries before the Holocaust. So? That fed the constant hatred of the Jewish people.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2024 10:12 am
But Horst and Lisabet all joined, what could be the harm?
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2024 08:43 pm
The recent C19 propaganda campaign showed us just how easily people can be turned into tools of the establishment, given the right "incentives". Hell, GW did the same with his "you're either with us, or you're against us" speech, prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq, resulting in millions of displaced civilians, and an estimated death count in the hundreds of thousands.

I recall the very early documentaries dealing with the holocaust, and it was more than clear that Jewish people were involved directly in the death-dealing in those camps. It wasn't German Jewish people being exterminated, but it was Lithuanian and Polish Jewish people, who, given the opportunity to relocate to Palestine, to aide in the Balfour declaration's mission statement, of ousting the Palestinian people, to take possession of their nation, to enable the realisation of the Jewish state, for the wishes of Lionel Walter Rothschild, should they choose not to be part of that plan, were taken to the camps for their extermination.

So this wasn't just about Adolph, but a rather early globalist push, including the destruction of the powerful Ottoman empire, and an assumption of control in the oil wealth of the middle east. This is still going on today.

Obama played his part in attempting to demonise Syria's political elite, using proxy forces he was busted delivering supplies and munitions to, clandestinely. The control of the Golan Heights district is now in Jewish hands, so that was mission accomplished.

He also was a controlling force, along with the British military, in ousting the loved leader of Libya, and completely ruining that once-great nation-state in northern Africa, opening the ports there to the illegal invasion of Europe by African nationals. No mention has ever been made about the massive gold stores the Libyan people had, prior to that illegal invasion.

It's a **** show, but to think Adolph was the only demon in the mix, is laughable.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 01:50 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
It wasn't German Jewish people being exterminated, but it was Lithuanian and Polish Jewish people, who, given the opportunity to relocate to Palestine, to aide in the Balfour declaration's mission statement, of ousting the Palestinian people, to take possession of their nation, to enable the realisation of the Jewish state, for the wishes of Lionel Walter Rothschild, should they choose not to be part of that plan, were taken to the camps for their extermination.


Nuremberg Laws


Jews murdered under Nazi rule by country

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 02:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Holocaust: Non-Jewish Victims
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 04:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It's exactly 80 years ago ...
Quote:
On July 24, 1944, Soviet soldiers and Polish military units arrived at the Majdanek concentration camp on the outskirts of the city of Lublin in eastern Poland.

A US war reporter would later describe Majdanek as "the most terrible place on the face of the Earth," comparing it to a huge car factory "for the production of death."

Ahead of the arrival of the Red Army, the Nazis had hastily abandoned Majdanek, one of six purpose-built killing centers called extermination camps that the Nazis built in the area of Poland under German occupation. They evacuated the remaining prisoners and tried to destroy the crematoriums and other buildings in an attempt to cover up the mass murder that took place at the death camp.

A least 78,000 people, including 59,000 Jews, were killed at Majdanek during its nearly three years of existence.
DW
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 11:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That's all one sentence, atrocious grammar, very limited control agreement.

Same as usual.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 02:17 pm
@Builder,
What utter filth. What terrible thing ever happened in your own life to make you think that saying such things was a socially acceptable action.

How vile.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 10:43 pm
There's plenty of evidence for what I stated. I still recall the earliest documentaries, which told the real story. Yes, it was horrific, but over the years, that information was gradually deleted or curtailed to suit an agenda.

This Jewish site has more info about the Polish deaths of Jewish people. They made up close to half of all Jewish deaths at the hands of the Nazis.

I find it odd, Walter, that your link made no mention of this atrocity at all.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 11:34 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Your link, Walter didn't include the three million

https://i.imgur.com/9ZpCDaDl.png

Either you didn't look at it or ...
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 11:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Either you didn't look at it or ...


So you're actually supporting my claims. Thank you Walter.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 11:49 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
So you're actually supporting my claims. Thank you Walter.
My link says "Jewish Losses during the Holocaust: By Country", nothing more, nothing less.
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2024 11:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It's there in black and white, which is all I needed.

My other claims also stand.

Thanks again.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Sep, 2024 04:57 am
'After Hitler': Changing German views of Nazism
Quote:
From secret adoration to loud dismay, Germans have come to terms with the Nazi past over 80 years in very different ways, as a new exhibition shows.

In 1932, sculptor Hedwig Maria Ley, a Nazi sympathizer, created the first authorized depiction of soon-to-be German dictator Adolf Hitler.

The Nazi party made her bust the model for portraying the leader throughout his notorious rule. However after Hitler's death by suicide and Germany's defeat in World War II, Ley buried the bust in her garden.

Twenty years later, a relative of her gardener dug up the sculpture and placed it proudly on the fireplace in his living room — where it stayed until the 1980s.

Such continuing reverence for the infamous Nazi leader was in stark contrast to young people who wanted to disassociate from older generations who had often embraced German fascism.

This generational divide is the basis for a new exhibition, "After Hitler: Germany's Reckoning with the Nazi Past," now on show at the Haus der Geschichte (House of History) in the former German capital, Bonn.

The story of Hedwig Maria Ley's bust of Hitler is a feature of the exhibition tracing shifting attitudes to Nazism across near 80 years. It illustrates how some Germans still adored a tyrannical leader who fomented the horrors of the Holocaust.

While the following "68er" protest generation deplored their parents' Nazi sympathies, "After Hitler" shows how neo-fascist political parties like the Alternative for Germany (AfD) are again on the rise in Germany.

Were Nazi 'fellow travellers' only acting under orders?
After the World War II, many Germans wanted to wipe away the memory of the former dictator, including through the renaming of streets that celebrated Hitler, his birthplace and so on.

As the adult generation who survived the war were busy rebuilding their lives in a destroyed postwar Germany, many did not talk about their own role in the Third Reich.

They were reluctant to fill out denazification questionnaires, and absolved themselves of responsibility by blaming Hitler and his commanders like Joseph Goebbels and Hermann Göring for war crimes.

The allied occupiers who charged Nazis for these crimes considered many Germans as "fellow travellers" who willingly worked for the Nazi regime — yet many still kept their jobs in the postwar republic — including in the new capital, Bonn.

Films revealing the Nazi concentration and extermination camps became compulsory screenings for West Germans, but it was different in the newly formed German Democratic Republic in the east.

There, the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED) propagated the anti-fascist founding myth that former Nazis only existed in the West. Anyone who embraced the socialist state was freed from guilt.

Perspectives on perpetrators
The "After Hitler" exhibition in Bonn explores the political and social context of the four generations of Germans who have tried to process the Nazi past in different ways.

Among the archival material on display is footage of a television reporter who in 1962 asks passers-by on the street about Jewish people. Some openly tell the reporter that Jews should not be allowed to work in the federal government, or that "there are too many of them," or even that "they were rightly persecuted."

These racist statements emerged from a generation of perpetrators of Nazi power and crimes.

Soon after, in 1965, several graves in the Jewish cemetery of the Bavarian city of Bamberg were desecrated. Five years later, an arson attack was carried out on a retirement home belonging to the Jewish community in Munich, killing seven Holocaust survivor residents. These were among hundreds of anti-Semitic attacks at the time.

At the same time, one exhibition section describes the generation of children who shaped social life from the 1960s and critically questioned their parents about their role in the Third Reich.

The search for the truth about the Nazi era was also becoming a part of popular culture. In 1979, twenty million Germans aged fourteen and over watched the award-winning US miniseries "Holocaust." Tens of thousands called the studio after the film was broadcast, most saying the film had opened their eyes.

Many were part of the next generation — the grandchildren of the National Socialist generation — who grew up in the 1980s and 1990s, in a time of crisis but also reunification and the rise of the environmental movement.

Telling the story of the victims
The "After Hitler" exhibition also devotes significant space to the postwar echoes of those who suffered under Nazism.

Among the display of some 500 objects is an unremarkable, small brown public transport ticket. It belonged to Erna Meintrup, who survived the Theresienstadt ghetto — which served as a collection and transit camp in the Nazi concentration camp system — before returning to her hometown of Münster.

But like many persecuted people, Meintrup did not talk about her imprisonment.

Also featured at the Haus der Geschichte is a bicycle belonging to a Jewish boy who gave it to a friend for safekeeping. It was not until 2007 that this friend, now an elderly man, gave the bicycle to an antiquarian bookshop. He had waited in vain for decades for his friend to return.

Next to the bike is a suitcase full of documents and memorabilia. This is all that remains of a Jewish family sent to the Regensburg concentration camp in Bavaria. An employee of the family kept the suitcase, and in it placed the letters that the family had written from the camp before they were murdered.

The exhibition organisers approach the topic less from a political perspective and more "through objects that tell many personal stories," said Hanno Sowade, curator of "After Hitler."

Far-right ideology lives on
Members of the fourth generation who have had to come to terms with the Nazi era were born after reunification in 1990. Many come from immigrant families and have no family ties to National Socialism.

Yet young people increasingly "understand the history of National Socialism as a warning for the present," say the exhibition organizers. "They demonstrate against right-wing populism and commemorate the victims of right-wing extremist violence."

Nonetheless, many young people have opportunities to engage with far right, neo-Nazi ideology, especially through social media.

In the summer of 2023, a right-wing extremist set fire to a converted telephone box that contained literature on National Socialism, as well as an audio station with excerpts from Holocaust victim Anne Frank's diary, and Hebrew songs.

The box was located near the "Gleis 17" memorial in the western Berlin district of Grunewald, a train platform from where throusands of Jewish people were deported to the extermination camps.

Almost 80 years after the end of the Second World War, the exhibition makes it clear that German confrontation of the Nazi past remains vital amid the rapid rise of right-wing extremist parties like the AfD.

Hitler may be gone, but his fascist legacy lives on.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2024 06:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, it makes me cringe when Americans ask this question when we have much to answer for, ourselves - any number of South-east Asian wars, Cuba, Philippines, Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti ... I am amazed with your equanimity about it.

I sincerely hope the Americans on this forum appreciate your forbearance.
Builder
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2024 04:04 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
I sincerely hope the Americans on this forum appreciate your forbearance.


There's two of you. Could just ask.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2024 11:07 am
Bookmark
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2024 02:12 am
@Lash,
So how long do you think the world will have to wait before we admit we put another German immigrant in charge and he destroyed the idea of American Democracy?
 

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