What Have YOU Sacrificed?

Sure - Dys and I have had that discussion - and I am very worried that you are both right.

Still, as a citizen in a country that assisted in the invasion, I feel really, really concerned about leaving the current mess.

I am not sure the rest of the world can fix it either.

FreeDuck wrote:

I can say for certain that I've sacrificed nothing but extra taxes and what little faith I had in my government. And I don't know many people who have sacrificed more than that.

Except those of us who sacrificed parts of our bodies,or our lives,or those families that have lost loved ones.

But other then them,your right,not many have sacrificed more then you have.

Imagine if we were doing food drops into areas of Iraq where there is 75% unemployment, no running water and limited, if any, electricity.

Baldimo,

Many of us are sacrificing to bring them home. There will be much more sacrifice to oppose the Bush insane policy as the Constitutional process flounders.

I feel quite motivated to sacrifice for this effort.

All Bush asked me to sacrifice are a couple of civil rights. But he gave me a tax break so I didn't say anything.

squinney wrote:

Imagine if we were doing food drops into areas of Iraq where there is 75% unemployment, no running water and limited, if any, electricity.

Do you think that would actually change much???

I recall a discussion on this very forum from two or so years ago where people were spitting their usual venom at Bush because the U.S. military had air-dropped food and water into remote regions of Afganistan and and handful of Afganis ended up getting injured by the dropping pallets. The fact that food was being provided to begin with was totally discarded.

The political well has become so poisoned that people refuse to even acknowledge that any "good" can be accomplished at all. No matter what ANY administration does in the U.S. in the forseeable future there will be a large portion of the population that will begrudge them any form of acknowledgement.

The USA PATRIOT Act

The USA PATRIOT Act broadly expands law enforcement's surveillance and investigative powers and represents one of the most significant threats to civil liberties, privacy and democratic traditions in U.S. history.

...

PATRIOT gives sweeping search and surveillance to domestic law enforcement and foreign intelligence agencies and eliminates checks and balances that previously gave courts the opportunity to ensure that those powers were not abused. PATRIOT and follow-up legislation now in development threaten the basic rights of millions of Americans.

Why should I care?

Under PATRIOT, civil liberties, especially privacy rights, have taken a severe blow:

* The law dramatically expands the ability of states and the Federal Government to conduct surveillance of American citizens. The Government can monitor an individual's web surfing records, use roving wiretaps to monitor phone calls made by individuals "proximate" to the primary person being tapped, access Internet Service Provider records, and monitor the private records of people involved in legitimate protests.

* PATRIOT is not limited to terrorism. The Government can add samples to DNA databases for individuals convicted of "any crime of violence." Government spying on suspected computer trespassers (not just terrorist suspects) requires no court order. Wiretaps are now allowed for any suspected violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, offering possibilities for Government spying on any computer user.

* Foreign and domestic intelligence agencies can more easily spy on Americans. Powers under the existing Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) have been broadened to allow for increased surveillance opportunities. FISA standards are lower than the constitutional standard applied by the courts in regular investigations. PATRIOT partially repeals legislation enacted in the 1970s that prohibited pervasive surveillance of Americans.

* PATRIOT eliminates Government accountability. While PATRIOT freely eliminates privacy rights for individual Americans, it creates more secrecy for Government activities, making it extremely difficult to know about actions the Government is taking.

* PATRIOT authorizes the use of "sneak and peek" search warrants in connection with any federal crime, including misdemeanors. A "sneak and peek" warrant authorizes law enforcement officers to enter private premises without the occupant's permission or knowledge and without informing the occupant that such a search was conducted.

* The Department of Justice, with little input from Congress and the American people, is developing follow-on legislation - the Domestic Security Enhancement Act (nicknamed Patriot II) -- which would greatly expand PATRIOT's already sweeping powers.

But, I don't recall anyone saying we shouldn't be sending food and supplies.

squinney wrote:

But, I don't recall anyone saying we shouldn't be sending food and supplies.

The comments weren't that we shouldn't be sending food but more to the effect that we were doing more damage than good and, of course, that it was all Bush's fault.

Look what people did for the tsunami victims. The whole world rallied to assist total strangers. Money poured in from all corners. Supplies were gathered and delivered. Small children contributed by setting up lemonade stands. People actually left their jobs, using their vacation time to volunteer their physical assistance in the area.

We have hearts. We are willing to give.

So, why is that not applied to Iraq? If it's a noble cause, why don't we rally around the Iraqi people and send school supplies? Batteries? Bottled water? Baby formula?

Why aren't we being asked to adopt a soldier? Buy a bullet proof vest to donate? Or, adopt a soldiers family here at home that has "sacrificed" their major bread winner to the effort in Iraq?

I see at least one story every week that addresses the extended difficulties of national guardsmen that have been called up. They are losing their jobs back home. Their families are unable to pay basic utility bills and rent / mortgage, something they had no problem doing prior to Iraq.

If the president were to explain to us what "safrifice" means when he says it, we would do it as long as he's not just talking about sacrificing the children of the lower classes at his burning bush.

Oh Baldimo, to answer your specific question. I am sacrificing time trying to support and strengthen the anti-war movement, and money to support the groups that are working to end the insane excesses of Bush's crusade on terror.

Then you do nothing for the soldiers. They are the ones that need your support not the anti-war groups. Why don't you find a charity that helps military families and donate that money to them, or donate the money to the college fund of fallen soldiers children. That would be a much better use of your money for the soldiers.

Quote:

Then you do nothing for the soldiers. They are the ones that need your support not the anti-war groups. Why don't you find a charity that helps military families and donate that money to them, or donate the money to the college fund of fallen soldiers children. That would be a much better use of your money for the soldiers.

Money for the college fund of fallen soldier's children in a fine thing. I think it is far better thing to stop the flow of fallen soldiers.

I think the children would agree.

Injured Reserves See Lost Pay, Lack of Treatment
by Howard Berkes

Morning Edition, February 22, 2005 · According to a Government Accountability Office report, hundreds of injured Army reservists and National Guard members -- including many wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan -- have lost medical care and pay because they were dropped from active duty status.

March 15, 2005 · Forty percent of American troops in Iraq are from National Guard and Reserve units. For many, the financial sacrifices are great. Many lose the salaries they were earning in the private sector, and their families are struggling to pay bills.

Support from the military can be elusive, because these soldiers are not part of a base community where family support groups are ready-made. Private groups like the nonprofit USA Cares, which is run by a retired major general, have sprung up to help cover the money gap, and some members of Congress have proposed incentives and subsidies to cover the loss of income.

Unfortunately, many National Guard and Reservists' families must also suffer a loss in income. When a National Guardsman or Reservist is called up to active duty, their civilian job - and civilian salary - are placed on hiatus and they begin receiving a military pay for their service, an amount which is often significantly less than their civilian salary.

This "pay gap" forces National Guard and Reservists' families to pinch to make ends meet. Grocery budgets are trimmed, rent or mortgage payments are paid late, credit cards are run up, others important purchases are postponed. Many family members of Reservists are forced to work overtime, dip into savings, borrow, or even go on welfare to pay the bills.