Israel's Security Barrier

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Someone asked a question in another thread, but didn't want anyone to talk about it in that thread. The issue concerned a possible IDF stand-down order on October 7 of last year.

Here’s what commander of the Kerem Shalom Battalion, who knows the area in detail, wrote:

“Something here doesn’t add up to me!!! This is a mystery that I can’t find an answer to.

I happen to know how things work in Gaza and on the border. I was the commander of the Kerem Shalom sector (Rafih), I was in charge of the Kissuf sector, I know the perimeter fence very well, I know how the army works there. I was in the Shatti refugee camp in Gaza, I was in charge of the Jibaliya refugee camp, I would make ambushes on the fence and deep in the area. I met Gazans, ate and breathed Gaza.

Set alerts according to 3 levels of pressure. She must alert when she is cut. There are 24/7 forces that are responsible for arriving within a few minutes, if not seconds, to the point where there is an alert in the fence. Every day do at least one penetration practice. Each subdivision has a standby squad whose role is to increase the force in an emergency situation. Observations scattered along the border cover every inch of it. The female observers are champions in identification. They don’t miss. They detect movement even before it approaches the obstacle – day and night.

At problematic points (dead areas) they place a tank with observation and detection capabilities, and a terrifying firepower. In some cases snipers are deployed in the field.

Every day before dawn there is a “dawn alert” procedure. At this hour all the forces are awake (in this case also the hour when hundreds of terrorists entered Israel). The night shift alternates with the day shift. The commander of each force inspects the axis to make sure there were no infiltrations during the night. Trackers that move on the axis know how to recognize traces. They know who crossed the fence, how much and even when.

Each scenario has a clear procedure. For example, a procedure for infiltrating terrorists, a procedure for taking hostages. Everything is written in blood and has been proving itself for years.

There are several other layers of security that this is not the place to talk about. In short, we are talking about an obstacle that proves itself for years and years.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, Hamas took out all of the cameras and sensors along the barrier, disabled armed tanks, took out radar, and crashed through the barrier without the command center detecting any of it?

The Jerusalem Post (June 23, 2017) heralds the newly proposed 65 km Gaza Fence and underground wall as “the biggest and most complex engineering projects Israel has undertaken and is unique even on a global scale”:

This underground wall will be equipped with sensors produced by the Israeli defense manufacturer Elbit Systems …
Above ground, a six to eight meter integrated wire fence armed with sensors and cameras will be erected. Observation, control and command centers will be built along its length and the entire barrier, above and below ground, will be linked online to a command center located in a rear military base in the vicinity.
…

observation towers, control and command centers will be built along the length of the wall, above and below ground, linked to a command center situated in a nearby military base.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So how did Hamas defeat that barrier undetected?

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@Glennn,

Do you think they may have colluded with Anthony Fauci???

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Why didn't they use their moon lasers?

If they can start Californian Wildfires they can laser Hamas.

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@Glennn,

Quote:

So how did Hamas defeat that barrier undetected?

You are basing your question on the testimony of one individual. This individual is quoted as saying, "This is a mystery that I can’t find an answer to."
If an IDF commander can't find an answer why do you think anyone here can?

In the other thread you hinted at conspiracy and previously you have mentioned that Israel wants to get its hands on the Gazan gas fields. So if you have a theory, this is the place to bring it out. How did Hamas defeat that barrier undetected? Tell us what you think.

By the way, you didn't cite the source of the quoted statement. Is there some reason why you don't wish to share it?

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

You are basing your question on the testimony of one individual.

The piece I posted about the security barrier was authored by three people, including Israeli General Herzl Halevi. If you believe it's all a bunch of ****, the next thing you should do is post some "real" specs concerning the security barrier. If you have nothing, then you have nothing.

Quote:

If an IDF commander can't find an answer why do you think anyone here can?

Here, let me explain what he meant. He was saying that it's puzzling because there is no legitimate answer as to why the security barrier failed.

Despite all the bells and whistles that went into the engineering and construction of that security barrier--which were all connected to online command centers at a nearby military base--Hamas was nevertheless able to bulldoze the fence and go on a killing spree for hours in broad daylight without anyone at the military base noticing for hours that sensors, radar, hundreds of cameras, etc. were no longer operable. Brought to you because you'll believe anything. Was there an Israeli investigation into what exactly happened that day? The answer may not surprise you.

If you believe that Hamas defeated Israeli intelligence and the security barrier, explain how they arranged for the complete failure of the barrier without that failure being detected at the command centers. If you have nothing, then you have nothing.

Quote:

So if you have a theory, this is the place to bring it out.

Yeah, no shyt. But you're not apt to see anything unless I first inform you of all the bells and whistles that went into the security barrier, which I did. So, you still need to explain how the state of the art security barrier described earlier was absolutely useless in its intended purpose.

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From December of 2021:

Israel announced on Tuesday the completion of a massive barrier around the besieged Gaza Strip, above and below ground, which took three and a half years to finish.

The project includes a sensor-equipped underground wall, a counter-measure developed after Hamas used tunnels to blindside Israeli troops during their 2014 offensive against the enclave.

Israel went public with the project, which also includes an above-ground fence, a naval barrier, radar systems and command and control rooms, in 2016.

Israel's defence ministry said the barrier, which includes hundreds of cameras, radars and other sensors, spans 65km and that 140,000 tonnes of iron and steel were used in its construction,

"The barrier, which is an innovative and technologically advanced project, deprives Hamas of one of the capabilities it tried to develop," Israeli Defence Minister Benny Gantz said, according to a defence ministry statement.

The ministry said the project's "smart fence" is more than six metres high and its maritime barrier includes means to detect infiltration by sea and a remote-controlled weapons system.

The ministry did not disclose the depth of the underground wall.

Israel has maintained a crippling blockade of the Gaza Strip since 2007, which critics say amounts to a collective punishment of the impoverished enclave's two million residents.

Israel prevents the importing of materials and equipment into Gaza and has imposed strict restrictions on exports, leading to a state of "paralysis" in several sectors of Gaza's economy.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-gaza-barrier-completed-announced

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Quote:

The piece I posted about the security barrier was authored by three people, including Israeli General Herzl Halevi.

Provide the url, please. I'd like to see the context.

Quote:

He was saying that it's puzzling because there is no legitimate answer as to why the security barrier failed.

Advanced technology has been known to fail, often because some simple thing like a bad switch. Remember the Challenger disaster?

Quote:

So, you still need to explain how the state of the art security barrier described earlier was absolutely useless in its intended purpose.

As I said before, if the Israelis don't know, or aren't providing an answer, why would you expect anyone on this message board to know? I already knew how the barrier was supposed to work so now you can share your theory as to why it failed.

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@Glennn,

It's a Qatari site.

Most of the ME can't get it, and it had tonsack a journalist in October fot praising Hitler and the Holocaust.

That's a hugely objective site for sure.

If they say it, it must be true.

And it's still not the quotation in question.

You always bloody sneak about, never a straight answer.

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@hightor,

Quote:

Provide the url, please. I'd like to see the context.

While I'm sure you're going to trash the source, I'll be waiting for you to explain how the source negates anything that was said.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/speculation-mark-hamas-attack-allowed-close-book-palestine/5836029

Quote:

Advanced technology has been known to fail, often because some simple thing like a bad switch.

Oh my god. You know that the Israelis investigated the murder of U.S. military personnel aboard the USS Liberty and the attempt to sink their vessel in 1967. However, since they're the ones who did it, they were investigating themselves and concluded that it was a case of mistaken identity. Radio intercepts between Israeli pilots and Ground Control confirms that they knew exactly who they were killing.

You also know that nutanyahu has inspired Israelis to consider Gazans the new Amalekites, to be dealt with accordingly, old Testament style. You also know that the president of Israel implores Israelis to remember that none are innocent because they didn't do anything about Hamas all this time. So, targetting innocent women and children is Israel's new defense strategy because they indirectly support Hamas? Pretty wicked reasoning there, huh?

And now, even though the Israelis are clearly and presently involved in a genocide against the human beings in Gaza, you would accept their excuse that they were surprised . . . for hours. You would even assist them by offering the lame idea that something like a bad switch or something similar might account for the the total collapse of the whole system all at once with no one at a military base where it was all linked to taking notice. Sure. What did Israel's investigation into the events of October 7 uncover? What caused the failure?

Quote:

Remember the Challenger disaster?

Oh my god, you're comparing the failure of the Challenger's O-ring with the failure of Israel's security barrier. I won't go into how silly that is, but I don't think I have to.

Why are you giving the ones who talk genocide--and then follow through with that talk by committing genocide--the benefit of the doubt when it comes to what the truth of the matter is?

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@Glennn,

That's one of those stupid conspiracy sites that only knuckle scraping flat earthers pay any credit to.

It's not even as good as the bloke down the pub.

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@Glennn,

Canadian professor's website helps Russia spread disinformation, says U.S. State Department

Quote:

As U.S. authorities guard against dirty tricks from foreign adversaries in the run-up to the Nov. 3 presidential election, an unlikely source has come under new scrutiny as a major conduit of Russian-linked disinformation: a Montreal-based website run by a retired University of Ottawa professor.

The platform, Global Research, features a Canadian domain name and offers an ever-expanding collection of conspiracy theories, such as the myth that the 9/11 attacks and COVID-19 pandemic were both planned in order to control the population. The website also hosts articles experts have attributed to a Russian spy agency.

With more than 275,000 Facebook followers and a potential readership in excess of 350,000 per article, the site has the biggest reach among "Kremlin-aligned" disinformation sites, according to the U.S. State Department.

"This is part of a larger effort to sow disarray and distrust within Western democracies," said James Andrew Lewis, a senior researcher at the Washington, D.C.-based think-tank Center for Strategic and International Studies. (...) cbc.ca

What a joke!

Quote:

While I'm sure you're going to trash the source

You're damn right I am!

Quote:

I'll be waiting for you to explain how the source negates anything that was said.

What do you mean by "explain"? The source is not believable. It could be a bunch of lies cooked up by someone looking for attention. I can't believe you tried to foist this off on us – no wonder you were resistant to sharing the url.

Quote:

Oh my god, you're comparing the failure of the Challenger's O-ring with the failure of Israel's security barrier.

No, I'm not. I'm comparing the trust that people put in technology in both cases, technology which is vulnerable to simple mechanical breakdowns and human error. Only idiots think that advanced technology is fail proof.

Quote:

Why are you giving the ones who talk genocide--and then follow through with that talk by committing genocide--the benefit of the doubt when it comes to what the truth of the matter is?

I'm not giving anyone the "benefit of the doubt", starting with proven purveyors of lies –like you.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

What do you mean by "explain"? The source is not believable. It could be a bunch of lies cooked up by someone looking for attention.

I see.

The commander of the Kerem Shalom Battalion, Yoram Erez, exists. Or is it that you do believe he exists, but you doubt that he said what he said? Either way, you're in denial . . . for some reason.

How about General Herzl Halevi who coauthored the article about the security barrier? Is it that you don't believe he exists, or you believe he didn't coauthor the article?

Is it that you secretly admire nutanyahu? I only ask because there are no grey areas when it comes to Israel's genocide of the Gazans; you either condone it, or you condemn it. nutanyahu is a religious nutter who refers to Gazans as Old Testament Amalekites who need to be dealt with in the old fashioned biblical way--ya know, kill 'em all!!

Do you not recognize belligerence and hateful racism when you hear it? How about when you see it. Recognize it?

And how about the Israeli president? He's made it abundantly clear that there are no innocent Gazans. Kinda declared open season on women and kids, huh?

Just so we know where you stand, do you acknowledge that nutanyahu sees Amalekites where there are only Gazans? Do you acknowledge that the Israeli president see's enemy combatants where there are only innocent women and children?

Quote:

No, I'm not. I'm comparing the trust that people put in technology in both cases, technology which is vulnerable to simple mechanical breakdowns and human error.

All of it was linked to a military base. So, when it all failed all at once, no one at the base noticed when it all went offline all at once? What did Israel's investigation into events that day uncover?

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

The commander of the Kerem Shalom Battalion, Yoram Erez, exists.

There was and is no "Kerem Shalom Battalion".

Stationed in Kerem Shalom is the 6643rd Territorial Brigade.
No "Yoram Erez" is/was listed as CO of that unit but that Colonel Assaf Hami, commander of the 6643rd Territorial Brigade of the Israeli Defense Forces, code-named "Katif", has died . (During the cross-border attack launched by Hamas on October 7 this year, he was deemed "missing in action" during the battle with Hamas at Kibbutz Nirim.)

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

The commander of the Kerem Shalom Battalion, Yoram Erez, exists.

The Suez Canal exists.

Does that mean Chuck Tingle's I freed this handsome cargo ship from the Suez Canal and now he's stuck in my but is also real?

I can see why you jump on conspiracy theories, they're clearly filling a hole.

(Much like the above cargo ship.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

There was and is no "Kerem Shalom Battalion".

As if it existed in a different universe, away from the scenes in Nazareth and the battle between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Joint List over the Arab vote, Unit 585 – The Desert Reconnaissance Unit, is both a military unit that protects the Israel-Gaza border and a ticket for Israeli-Arabs to enter Israeli society.

The unit, better known as the Bedouin Reconnaissance Battalion, is a home for Israeli Arabs who want to join the IDF, but for some reason can’t or won’t join the regular infantry divisions, such as the Golani, Givati or the Paratroopers.

The unit’s base is located in Kerem Shalom, near where the Israeli, Egyptian and Gazan borders meet. Their day-to-day mission is to protect the area and defend the adjacent Jewish settlements.

The reason that the battalion was dubbed as the Bedouin one is because it consisted mainly of Bedouin soldiers. But not only – some 40% of the battalion are non-Bedouin Muslim Arabs, Christians and Circassians.

While most of the Bedouins in the battalion come from northern Israel, the rest of the soldiers come from different places, including those who do not sympathize with joining the IDF, such as east Jerusalem and Umm el-Fahm.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/meet-the-bedouin-unit-protecting-israels-border-advancing-the-community-655477

Of course there was never a Kerem Shalom Battalion.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

So he was (before Lt.-Col. David Ron) the commander of the Desert Reconnaissance Battalion (DRB), whose units' - Abu Ghosh (Israeli-Arabs), Yahav (Bedouins) and Druze - mission is to act as a rescue unit serving the population of their respective communities?

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@Walter Hinteler,

https://idsf.org.il › en › stories-of-valor › kerem-shalom-squad
The emergency squad that saved an entire kibbutz - IDSF
Oct 7, 2023Name: The Kibbutz Kerem Shalom emergency squad. Battle date: 07/10/2023. As soon as the attack started, Elia Ben Shimol the security coordinator mobilized the eight members of the emergency squad plus four more fighters who had stayed to watch over the kibbutz. They discovered tens

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