A new low...even for liberal anti-war protesters

Badly missing here: sense of proportion. Take off yer "zoom in on political enemy, unveil the hidden vileness and insanity that must be there" glasses, take a step back, and imagine its yer neighbour, estranged uncle, third cousin twice removed, old study mate, dotty gardener, local pub owner talking. There might not be anything behind it, ya know. Unless you really want to find something there.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

woiyo wrote:

Not according to Ms. Sheehan. She believes BOTH wars are wrong.

as an american citizen she has the right to believe whatever she wishes.

As usual, you take bits and pieces to further some silly point you may be trying to make.

So you can frame my response in context, I will remind you that Setanta had a different opinion than Ms. Sheehan and I was pointing that out to Setanta.

What would you call it, nimh? It's not "channelling," it's _______________.

I'm not saying she doesn't need therapy. In fact I'm sure she does. And I think she ought to go about getting it.

goodfielder wrote:

None of the above Tico. Just that she has a really good point to make.

What is her point? She's made her point already, so what is the point remaining to be made by her?

dlowan wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Not sure that they are targeting anything so substantial as skeletons.


Like - they rave on about white supremacist associations - while seemingly passing over stuff like she thinks she is channeling her son (if she does - it was a throwaway thing Tico said.)

What is your point by saying this? Do you think we should focus on the fact she thinks she is channeling her son? Why do you think that is more important? Is it more important that focusing on her anti-Israel remarks?

She has a perfect right to criticise Israel and your government's foreign policy.

And I have a perfect right to criticize her for it. Or don't I?

Quote:

You appear to think that criticising either is treason, or some such nonsense.

As prone as you are to assigning other's thoughts and beliefs to people, I've no doubt that you really believe I think she is guilty of treason, even though I've never said any such thing, nor do I believe it.

Quote:

We disagree so fundamentally and utterly on this that there is no crossing the abyss. So be it.

Yes, so be it.

Quote:

I think her sanity is quite important, given that the media is giving her such a stage for the time - and believing that she is channeling her son (if that is true) gives me some cause to doubt her mental state.

I've been doubting it for some time now. Nice to see you coming around.

Quote:

Although, even that is a matter of debate - since I understand numbers of otherwise sane people believe in the same thing - just as lots of folk believe in the invisible friends they call gods, and few call them nuts. It is simply a matter that I consider relevant in looking at the nature of her movement. I have no idea how relevant, cos I am not following it that closely.

You're too busy criticizing the people criticizing her?

Quote:

I hope she has, at least, stirred the sluggish streams of thought in those Americans who believe everything that Bush and Fox tell them.

Vicente Fox, the President of Mexico?

dlowan wrote:

Anyhoo, speaking professionally, it is actually not extremely unusual for people in grief to believe they can see/hear their loved one - and one does not question their mental state as much at that time as one otherwise might.

Shrugs.

Perhaps not. Except, of course, when one has grabbed the national spotlight and is claiming moral authority in an effort to sway public opinion to the anti-war movement. If she wants to go home to California away from the glare of the media because her mental state is too frail, she should do so.

Your link doesn't work, Walter. Was that a letter to the editor?


Another story from the Portsmouth Herald, of another mother deserving of respect:

Quote:

Mother has own message

By Susan Nolan
[email protected]

PORTSMOUTH - Natalie Healy of Exeter, whose son was killed in Afghanistan on June 28, has something to say to Cindy Sheehan:

Speak for yourself.

Healy will be holding a rally in Market Square today from noon to 2 p.m. in support of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, in support of President Bush and in support of the mission of her son, Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel Healy, a Navy SEAL.

The 36-year-old father and Exeter High School graduate was killed when the MH-47 Chinook helicopter he was riding in was shot down by enemy fire in eastern Afghanistan. He was one of 16 Americans who died in the crash.

Natalie Healy said she’s troubled over the attention Sheehan, a California woman whose son was killed in Iraq, has attracted to her "peace vigil" outside President Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Healy added that she’s also concerned over the large amount of press Sheehan has gotten from her campout and from the peace rallies that have been held in support of it.

Healy said she hopes her rally today will begin a ground swell to counteract Sheehan’s message.

Many Americans support the troops and the president, she said.

"Anybody (is invited to today’s rally) who wants to show their support for our young men and women fighting the war - so that we can let the enemy know and the soldiers know and the politicians know and the president know that we will stand behind them ... so that they can get the job done in the most timely and efficient fashion," she said.

"We just want to let the fellas know that we’re supporting them and that we’re not going to wimp out on them," Healy added. "We know they had a job to do, and we’re going to make sure that they get it done.
PHOTO

"If we pull out without the job done, then my son will have died in vain, and I won’t accept that," she said. "I feel that we have got to finish the job, that we have got to make sure that it is known that we have the courage."

Healy also said she wants to send a message to al-Qaida.

"They attacked us on 9/11, and we have to make sure that the terrorists understand that we will defend our freedoms. ... As long as they know we’re not going to give up ... that’s what they have to know," she said.

Healy said she would like her message to travel around the world, just as Sheehan’s has.

"I’m going to use the same tools she is using," said Healy.

"I’m also asking different people to have a rally on Wednesday night in their own cities and towns," she said.

"We’ll be having one in Exeter, more than likely, to show our solidarity with the troops, and to show the enemy that not all Americans feel the way Cindy Sheehan and her group feel."

Healy said Sheehan has already met with the president once, while she herself has not.

"If I’m supposed to meet with him as one of the mothers, then she can have my spot, but she has to treat him with respect and dignity," said Healy.

"If (the president) was her ex-husband, they’d consider this stalking," said Healy of Sheehan’s protest at Bush’s Texas ranch. "That’s harassment in other places."

Healy said she learned Wednesday that her son and his comrades did not die quickly. "We got information on the Internet about what actually happened the day Dan was shot down. I had originally assumed that it was instant, and it wasn’t. They had a long time to ponder what was going to happen," she said. "They flew for a mile after they were shot. The pilot held them up." They were in a mountainous area, however, and the pilot had to land on a ledge. It gave way, and those aboard plummeted to their death.

Healy said she is "aware that I’m in shock" but is thankful for that. "I’m glad it’s like that. I don’t want to have to feel it all at once."

Healy - who has taken to the airwaves to counteract Sheehan’s message of opposition to the president - said she’s glad to have a chance to fight back.

"By being on this mission, it makes me feel close to Dan, and at the same time, it keeps my mind occupied."

dlowan wrote:

I have no need to "come to her defence in substance".

It behoves you slimers to attack her with something of substance.

As I have repeatedly said, if you attack her with reasoned debate and substance, I have no problem.

It is the nature of the attack that I react to.

One question for you.

If her words are quoted and commented on,how is that an attack?

Ticomaya wrote:

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn she doesn't really think she's channelling her son, but is only saying what she thinks will further her cause.

from what i can find, she doesn't and never has claimed to be pulling a seth.

simply, she has said what she believes the kid is thinking up in heaven and what he will say when she gets there.

looks to have started on worldnetdaily. as a question.

Quote:

By Joe Kovacs
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Casey Sheehan

Is Cindy Sheehan now "channeling" her slain son, Casey, from heaven?

worldnetdaily.com

so really, she is in this case, not doing anything that millions of people of faith don't do every day of the week.

i find it interesting that the site "catholic answers forum" nixed a thread about this;

Quote:

Robert Bay vbmenu_register("postmenu_898844", true);

Moderator

Join Date: June 26, 2005
Location: In The News
Posts: 206

Re: Cindy Sheehan now clames to be channeling Casey. She need help and prayers.

Thread closed

Reason: lack of charity

If you folks want to have discussions in this forum, your going to have to do it in a charitable manner.
__________________

catholic answers forum

busted.

Ticomaya wrote:

goodfielder wrote:

None of the above Tico. Just that she has a really good point to make.

What is her point? She's made her point already, so what is the point remaining to be made by her?

Lol - I THINK under the freedoms you and your ilk claim (now that your other so-called reasons for the war have been shot out of the water) you wished to bring to Iraq, that people are alllowed to work actively to prpmote their views and beliefs as part of the political process, as long as they breach no laws.

Do they not have that right?

Is that still true when you disagree with them?

Seemingly not.

I was referring to a so-called "news" network called Fox, actually.

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Anyhoo, speaking professionally, it is actually not extremely unusual for people in grief to believe they can see/hear their loved one - and one does not question their mental state as much at that time as one otherwise might.

Shrugs.

Perhaps not. Except, of course, when one has grabbed the national spotlight and is claiming moral authority in an effort to sway public opinion to the anti-war movement. If she wants to go home to California away from the glare of the media because her mental state is too frail, she should do so.

Yes - this imaginary friends calling you and such IS a worry - and wanting power and the spotlight.

One of the reasons I am concerned about a born again, god speaks to me, god is on our side as we kill people, lloony like Bush having all that power.


Glad to see you are coming round...

Let me get this right.


You are NOT posting this to attack THIS mother?

You believe it is good for her to express, and you to promote, her views?

You aren't going to attack and slime this woman?


Hmmmmmm.........

dlowan wrote:

I was referring to a so-called "news" network called Fox, actually.

It's a fine network. You ever watch it?

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn she doesn't really think she's channelling her son, but is only saying what she thinks will further her cause.

from what i can find, she doesn't and never has claimed to be pulling a seth.

simply, she has said what she believes the kid is thinking up in heaven and what he will say when she gets there.

looks to have started on worldnetdaily. as a question.

Quote:

By Joe Kovacs
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Casey Sheehan

Is Cindy Sheehan now "channeling" her slain son, Casey, from heaven?

worldnetdaily.com

so really, she is in this case, not doing anything that millions of people of faith don't do every day of the week.

i find it interesting that the site "catholic answers forum" nixed a thread about this;

Quote:

Robert Bay vbmenu_register("postmenu_898844", true);

Moderator

Join Date: June 26, 2005
Location: In The News
Posts: 206

Re: Cindy Sheehan now clames to be channeling Casey. She need help and prayers.

Thread closed

Reason: lack of charity

If you folks want to have discussions in this forum, your going to have to do it in a charitable manner.
__________________

catholic answers forum

busted.

So - this "channelling" thing is MORE slime? Or not?

I wonder how it is that you contend a mention of Bush is diversionary in a discussion of Miss Sheehan. Rather quixotic, is it not? Miss Sheehand would be unknown were it not for the centrality of Bush in her story.

dlowan wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Anyhoo, speaking professionally, it is actually not extremely unusual for people in grief to believe they can see/hear their loved one - and one does not question their mental state as much at that time as one otherwise might.

Shrugs.

Perhaps not. Except, of course, when one has grabbed the national spotlight and is claiming moral authority in an effort to sway public opinion to the anti-war movement. If she wants to go home to California away from the glare of the media because her mental state is too frail, she should do so.

Yes - this imaginary friends calling you and such IS a worry - and wanting power and the spotlight.

One of the reasons I am concerned about a born again, god speaks to me, god is on our side as we kill people, lloony like Bush having all that power.


Glad to see you are coming round...

Why divert attention from Sheehan to Bush. (Attention Setanta: Diversion taking place right here. I'm sure you'll jump in and condemn it.)

If it is such a worry to you, why are you pitching such a fit about those that point it out?

Because we're talking about Ms. Sheehan, not Bush. But I see your point. Why, then, did you accuse me of diversion when I posted the view of a mother who lost her son in the military who did not think Sheehan spoke for her. That's precisely on point. A different grieving mother with the same "moral authority" as Sheehan telling her to put a sock in it. If you felt so inclined, you might have pointed out a distinction to be made in that the son of the mother who is the subject of the article I posted did not die in Iraq, but you instead chose to accuse me of diversion and false analogy.(emphasis added)

Ah, the conservatives do love diversion and false analogies. Miss Healy's son died in a worthy cause in what has properly been seen since the outset as the war on terrorism--in Afghanistan. That is not the case with the son of Miss Sheehan. (emphasis added)

So while my posting that article dealt directly with Sheehan, dlowan diverts focus from Sheehan to Bush ... and you have no problem with that.

Interesting.